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Competition

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Forum Name: Military Talk
Forum Description: Feel free to talk about anything military related.
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9394
Printed Date: December 11 2019 at 2:25pm
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Topic: Competition
Posted By: Honkytonk
Subject: Competition
Date Posted: December 13 2018 at 6:21am
It seems like there are several expert marksmen on this site. Is there such a range event that pits a Lee Enfield against a period Mauser or Mosin Nagant? That would be interesting!



Replies:
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: December 13 2018 at 6:31am
There are several places doing that, there's actually a class for original condition MilSurps.
http://thecmp.org/competitions/cmp-national-matches/national-cmp-games-events/national-vintage-military-rifle-match/" rel="nofollow - http://thecmp.org/competitions/cmp-national-matches/national-cmp-games-events/national-vintage-military-rifle-match/
Google for "vintage military rifle matches" & you'll find a bunch of local ones.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Stanforth
Date Posted: December 13 2018 at 8:54am
Over the last 3 years, my club has held an event at Bisley to commemorate the live of those who served their country (that includes both sides of the conflict) in the First World war. To be eligible all rifles must be of a type used either in the particular battle, in 2016 we commemorated the Somme and in 2017 it was Passchendaele and this year all of the conflict.
 
Rifles used were Lee Enfields (SMLE, Long Lee and Lee Enfields) Pattern 14 Mosin Nagants, Various Mauser This year we added Pattern 17, Springfield, 7mm & 8mm Remington Rolling Blocks .
 
I am delighted to inform you that each year the winner has been an Enfield SMLE.


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Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: December 13 2018 at 9:32am
When I was re-enacting we hosted an event every year outside of Rochester N.Y. @ Genessee Village. At stake was a keg of beer for your unit. The 22nd Va G Coy (my unit) vs 140th N.Y.
After the "village" closed we would hold a shooting competition. Military arms only. No scopes, no autos, no modifications, rifles only. We would start with our civil war muskets. (I can't hit nowt with my '53 Enfield). Toward the end we would be awfully close in score & it always came down to a "shoot -out". My Vimy Vet vs (usually) a 1903 Springfield.
I must say the free beer was a good thing on a hot summer night.
When the 3rd year came round they asked if "the as*ho7le with that stupid British rifle was coming to compete again?"
Sadly, I didn't make it that year..& the 22nd won anyway!

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: SW28fan
Date Posted: December 13 2018 at 6:31pm
I run 3 or 4 CMP Vintage Rifle matches a Year total hoot.

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Have a Nice Day
If already having a nice day please disregard


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: December 13 2018 at 7:11pm
There are exactly 0 CMP clubs in Phoenix.  My shooting range facilitates  Long Range shoots hosted by Macmillan and Berger. (Macmillans main shop is ten miles from the shooting range.) SASS competition,and youth and seniors programs.


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: December 14 2018 at 7:23am
Honkeytonk, in the US, the Civilian Marksmanship Program runs the Vintage Military Rifle Match for as issued military bolt rifles, excluding the M1903 Springfield which has its own CMP Match event.  Local clubs sponsor these matches as well as CMP operated ranges.  

Each year, the National Matches in Camp Perry include the VMR National Match and the results are posted online with the rifle type fired by the competitor.   All the common military bolt action service rifles are represented at these matches.  In 2018, there was 358 shooters and the winer was shooting a M1917 Enfield.  You will see numerous Lee Enfields but are usually the minority of the rifles seen.  That’s not because LEs are not as accurate as others, they are just not as well known or as available as other military rifles in the US. 

Any military bolt rifle in good condition has the ability to win these matches, it’s more about the skill of the shooter than the type of rifle.  




Posted By: SW28fan
Date Posted: December 15 2018 at 8:18pm
I will have you know I won a Local Vintage Military Rifle match with a No4 Mk1 Longbranch  (That is correct a no bloody * Longbranch)  We also had a Gas Trap Garand shoot in the Garand Match during that event.

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Have a Nice Day
If already having a nice day please disregard


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: December 16 2018 at 4:50am
These CMP VMR matches are a lot fun, I encourage any members here in the US to participate.  At the Talladega 600 VMR Match last weekend, there was a shooter with a No. 4 Mk2 who travelled all the way from the UK to participate, he may be a member of this forum, I didn’t think to ask him.

I shot my LB No. 4 Mk 1/3 at the match, Victor Betzold beat me out by one point shooting a M1917.  I messed up in the rapids not holding left to correct for the wind.  This is the first time I’ve had any noticeable wind drift at 200 yards.

A lot of fun and a great way to improve your shooting skills.  




Posted By: Whitjr
Date Posted: December 16 2018 at 5:01am
Sounds like i should go to one!


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: December 16 2018 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

There are exactly 0 CMP clubs in Phoenix.  My shooting range facilitates  Long Range shoots hosted by Macmillan and Berger. (Macmillans main shop is ten miles from the shooting range.) SASS competition,and youth and seniors programs.

Gossic, looks like the CMP hosts the Games Matches (JCG, VMR, Springfield and Vintage Sniper) at the Ben Avery Range in Phoenix.  





Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: December 16 2018 at 5:12pm
I will ask again then. The range master had stated  that they did not have any type of CMP's. Do you have a contact list and number of someone I can call to confirm this? I would really like to try my hand at this. The rifles are definitely capable of getting  the bullets down range and onto the targets. The CMP website gave me a big fat zero as well,even after I punched in Ben Avery in the search bar...


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: December 16 2018 at 7:58pm
Try this Goosic,

http://thecmp.org/competitions/cmp-travel-games/western-games/" rel="nofollow - http://thecmp.org/competitions/cmp-travel-games/western-games/

This is one of the links I found advertising CMP Matches at the Ben Avery Range.  


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: December 16 2018 at 8:16pm
I warn you guys now, this gets very addictive.  Since I started competing in the CMP Games Matches about 3 years ago, my round count is now about 150 per week.  

Gossic, if you enter the Vintage Sniper Match with that Savage Faux No. 4(T), I bet you will set a new Match Record.  From what I saw, that rifle will shoot a score of 400 with a very high X count, possibly even a 400-40x.  The 600 yard X Ring is 1 MOA,  and you have shot smaller groups than that.  The current National Match Record score is 398-23x.  Someone may have beaten that at club matches, don’t know. 





Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: December 16 2018 at 9:30pm
They have no matches all next year. It starts back up in 2020-22,the last three weeks of March.  The one thing I noticed from the pictures from the last competition was the range they used. The range I use as does the rest of the public, is the main range. It has the standard 100 yard and in the center of the range it goes to 200 yards. The CMP competition  used the high powered rifle range  directly to the east of the main range. It only goes to 100 yards. All the shooters are standing with their rifles resting on a shoulder high pole. I saw no pictures of anyone shooting a vintage sniper rifle from the prone position. I found one person to contact  that will point me in the right direction. 


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: December 17 2018 at 7:56pm
we have tried to get a shoot together here , never quite got it done , always a bunch of interest in shooting it but not much interest in working it , 

no shortage of folks with vintage rifles that would love to participate , 


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: December 17 2018 at 8:36pm
 I would love to do something like that. Anytime,anyplace for me...Thumbs Up


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: January 03 2019 at 10:46am
How many on this forum would be interested in a Lee Enfield informal shooting match at the Talladega Marksmanship Park, AL? I'd be willing to organize it if there is enough interest.
http://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/TalladegaBrochure.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/TalladegaBrochure.pdf
 
The TMP range has a 54 position covered firing point, electronic target monitors (no walking up to the targets to score and paste) and targets at 200, 300 and 600 yards.  Great clubhouse too.  Only downside is there is not much else to do around Talladega; and I don't suggest we do this when Talladega 500 race week is on!  But that way we don't get too distracted from shooting!
 
If there is interest, I'll propose some ideas on how to do the match.  I want to make this as inclusive as we can, including the 7.62 conversions for example. 
 
 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 03 2019 at 1:51pm
I got an invite to shoot at the Quantico range, unfortunately I don't qualify to shoot there as I discovered to my horror.
Being on the Quantico Marine base there's a long (3 week minimum) positive vetting process & although it says green cards granting permanent residence are acceptable ID for the application, non-citizens can't use the facilities.
Bummer.
https://quanticoshootingclub.com/membership" rel="nofollow - https://quanticoshootingclub.com/membership



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: January 03 2019 at 4:16pm
Not a problem at the TMP Shamu.  


Posted By: 42rocker
Date Posted: January 03 2019 at 8:15pm
britrifles
That's quite the invitation to a great looking range. Always wanted to visit the cmp there.
Wish I could. Good Luck on setting this up.  
 
Later 42rocker


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 03 2019 at 9:18pm
This sounds like an opportunity for all of us to get together and show off our Enfield rifles in person, shoot some targets, possibly shoot each others Enfield rifles,eat food,mingle and tell lies.
What say you all give this a serious think. I'll let you guys fondle my faux No4 (T) and the 7.62mm Enfield...


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 04 2019 at 6:20am
sorry not familiar TMP?


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: January 04 2019 at 6:29am
Sorry Shamu, the link I sent was to the Talladega Marksmanship Park (TMP). 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 04 2019 at 8:19am
Ah! now I unnerstan.
I thought CMP was strictly for citizens as well?


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: January 04 2019 at 9:06am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Ah! now I unnerstan.
I thought CMP was strictly for citizens as well?
 
No, the TMP is open to the public.  All you need to do is watch the safety video and sign the usual disclaimers.   No memberships; you pay $10/Hr or $30 for the full day. 
 
Here's a link to the TMP website:
 
http://thecmp.org/competitions/talladega-marksmanship-park/" rel="nofollow - http://thecmp.org/competitions/talladega-marksmanship-park/
 
You must be a US citizen to purchase firearms and ammunition from the CMP store inside the TMP clubhouse. 
 
 
 
 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 04 2019 at 1:56pm
Ahh that makes sense!
VERY nice range!

Its a shame it's too far from MD to be practical.
I'm truly stranded in a cultural wasteland!
Star


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: January 04 2019 at 2:24pm
I’m fortunate to live only an hour and a half from Talladega.  But, it understand, the distance for others to travel to Alabama may make this impractical.  

If anyone wants to come and spend a day at the TMP, I’d be happy to meet them there.  Even better if we can get a small group and enjoy the day and have a friendly competition, try each other’s rifles.  



Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 04 2019 at 3:26pm
It sounds like a good place for a rendezvous!
Those are tricky to set up & you have to start a year early with a date everyone thinks they can make.
I did one for a different web site & it was awesome.
(We called it "All alone in the Ozarks, where nobody can hear you scream")



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: 42rocker
Date Posted: January 04 2019 at 5:31pm
Really like this idea. I drove from Fla to Minn for a machine gun shoot and this is only about 7 hours away. And just a few hours away from my son's house. I know several folks that live in that area that would bring Enfields if opened up to folks from other sites.
The who what where when is going to be of interest. Looking forward to updates.

Of course in a far smaller scale I offer the builders and belt fed shoot in the Tampa Bay Fla area to all of you folks. Not a lot of Enfields (1 or 2) show up but a lot of other interesting stuff.

Hope that someone can bring this together sometime.
britrifles -- I think that you have a Great Idea going and that you should start a thread on this idea alone. Good Luck!

Later 42rocker


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 04 2019 at 6:02pm
"..Ahh that makes sense!
VERY nice range!
Its a shame it's too far from MD to be practical.
I'm truly stranded in a cultural wasteland!.."

too far from minn as well but i would love to try it , 


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 04 2019 at 6:19pm
My GPS  indicates  that if I were to walk to Talladega it would take me 13.97 weeks.  25 hours if I were to drive.


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: January 04 2019 at 6:53pm
We used to gather @ Rhino's for this sort of frivolity.
Alas...it doesn't happen much any more...which is a good thing (for me!!) Nobody gonna eat my crawfish or drink my beer!! Just hang with ole Rhino & drink HIS beer now! ...and he's got his own brewhouse now, to boot!! It don't get any better than that! (Well, unless you add a 4 ft woman with a flat head in the mix!!)

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 05 2019 at 7:05pm
wish i might have experienced that , i think we might all get on very well , i do like beer and crawfish , 



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