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and it begins

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Rifles
Forum Description: Anything that has to do with the great Enfield rifles!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9927
Printed Date: December 13 2019 at 11:31pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: and it begins
Posted By: shiloh
Subject: and it begins
Date Posted: August 09 2019 at 6:21pm
Parts are starting to trickle in for my 1915 EFD mkIII.
Today I got   windage adjustable rear sight, cut off and screw and front and rear volley sights.
Still waiting for my stock set from Ralph Shaw, mailed 20th July, must be on a slow truck coming from the Yukon, maybe next week.
Other goodies in the mail,1907 EFD bayo scabbard and frog, rear sight protector, PH target swivel for smle, might be some goodies can't remember,been busy looking for and buying stuff. Should end up costing more than its worth lol, but it'll be worth it to me.
I'll post pics as this project proceeds.


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shoot em if you got em



Replies:
Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 3:56am
Looking forward to the pictures, especially of the stock set. These projects always cost more than rifle will be worth in the end but it's also fun and satisfying to get it done. It takes a certain mindset to do this labor of love for these old rifles.


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 4:20am
So true, but in the end you end up with something worth while, that you can be proud of.
For me it`s one of my pleasures, to be able to do this without having to pay someone else's labors, is the prize.
Most of the fun for me is searching for parts, and research, I love learning things. I think over the yrs I`ve forgotten more than I remember, lol, but it never hurts to do refreshes.
I think the big challenge will be retrofitting the new stock to accommodate the volley`s, I told Ralph the project was to restore a 1915 mkIII not III*, he said that should not be an issue, just research for proper profiles and positions.
So ya I`ll have to do my do diligence, before carving into a new stock and possibly throwing $350 out the window.
Lots of resources on line and live examples, so I should be good.



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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 7:09am
Ralph's Sht.LE fore stocks are patterned on Mk.III profile wood that was also used on early Mk.III* production. The swell in the fore arm for the front volley disk is there, and like the originals, just not cut and inlet.

There are some fore stocks floating around that are purported to be original wood work to fit the Mk.III with volley sights. These surfaced at one of the big USA parts retailers a few years ago. All gone now, thankfully.
What they actually are, are new old stock wood fore ends that somebody retro fitted the volley sights but cutting the inlets. Doh!

Great idea, except that the pattern of fore stock that they used was the later post 1925 style that was streamlined without the swell for the front volley. But they cut the inlet anyway and it looks wrong. I feel sorry for the poor buggers who didn't know as to what they were buying. It makes their careful and expensive restoration scream fake!

Ralph Shaw's product is CNC cut and is very good quality walnut. Interested to find out what is needed to fit it up. As I understand, the draws need to be patched or copper blocks fitted. Some woodworking skills required.

The front volley I am sure that you will figure it out with reference to photos. If I can give you a tip, I cover the area that I will inlet with wide masking tape and draw my guidelines onto that. I lay everything out with drawing instruments and a fine mechanical pencil like it was geometry homework.

If you can borrow an original rifle or get someone to make a paper tracing of the inlet even better. Use the barrel band inlet as a datum line. 


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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 8:32am

Thank for your advise, I accept all input, good bad or indifferent. As a master cabinet/carcass maker(only a hobby for me now), I in no way profess to be a stock maker, though I`m learning along the way.
I know this will be a challenge, but hopefully well worth the effort, to me anyway.
I talked to Ralph a bit and he`s throwing in a metal bits package and a few other goodies he found relating to my rifle, can`t hardly wait for that pkg to arrive. The waiting is the worst, I feel like a kid waiting for Santa to arrive. Wacko


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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 4:16pm
Sorry Shiloh... Santa does not exist! I was a pretty good lad last year. Only asked for Kate Beckinsale to drive up in my car park in a 1967 Jaguar XKE and exclaim they were both for me. Didn't happen...


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by Honkytonk Honkytonk wrote:

Sorry Shiloh... Santa does not exist! I was a pretty good lad last year. Only asked for Kate Beckinsale to drive up in my car park in a 1967 Jaguar XKE and exclaim they were both for me. Didn't happen...


Geeze; did you tell your kids that when they were 6, LOL


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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 6:41pm
looking forward to the updates , 


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: August 11 2019 at 7:55am
englishman, does the Mk I*** volley disk inletting have the same shape as that on the Mk III? I was thinking I could take detailed photos of the inletting of my Mk I*** foreend and possibly a paper tracing for shiloh to have some reference.


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 11 2019 at 9:05am
Originally posted by Bear43 Bear43 wrote:

englishman, does the Mk I*** volley disk inletting have the same shape as that on the Mk III? I was thinking I could take detailed photos of the inletting of my Mk I*** foreend and possibly a paper tracing for shiloh to have some reference.


That would be awesome, I`ve been looking at museum pics and scaling from them, its a little tough and only gets you close.
So if you post a pic, take it with a ruler close by, that makes scaling uber easy.


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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: August 11 2019 at 10:10am
I'll do that as well as take some measurements with a caliper. I'll try and get started on that tonight.


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 11 2019 at 10:17am
Cool, that very decent of you and muchly appreciated.


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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: August 11 2019 at 10:43am
Ralph makes nice wood sets for the #4 rifles as well. He is also making #5 wood sets to be available soon enough. I've ordered a lot of stuff from Ralph over the years. His shipments are packaged very very well so no shipment bruises. This all takes time, you will get your set, Shiloh.

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 11 2019 at 11:18am
Originally posted by Canuck Canuck wrote:

Ralph makes nice wood sets for the #4 rifles as well. He is also making #5 wood sets to be available soon enough. I've ordered a lot of stuff from Ralph over the years. His shipments are packaged very very well so no shipment bruises. This all takes time, you will get your set, Shiloh.

I know, I know, I`m just so damned impatient!!!!


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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: August 11 2019 at 11:44am
The front volley sight plate is the same standard size and shape, from Mk.I Lee Metford right through the series of long Lees and Sht.LE. Same as P14 too.

The variation was in the calibration scale. So even the wrong one will fit until you find the right one (LES).

The inletting was the same on Mk.I and Mk.III Sht.LE, yes.

A paper trace includinr the edges of the barrel band inlet and the forearm along the barrel channel for reference would get you very close.
.
.

Bear, cut a piece of paper just sized a little more than needed to allow you to wrap around, use tape to hold it tight and perfectly still.

Ever do 'pencil rubbings' in art class?


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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: August 11 2019 at 7:11pm
I was thinking the difference was only in the calibration scale but wanted to make sure. Thanks for the confirmation on that. I do have experience with pencil rubbings from my grade school days, so that will finally be of some use LOL

shiloh, I haven't had a chance to get to it tonight (been busy mowing my huge lawn) but I will get it done this week.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 11 2019 at 8:02pm
thats an inletting process i would not want to tackle anymore but nice to know there are those that will and others offering help , wishing you the best of luck and looking forward to seeing the finished product


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 12 2019 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:

thats an inletting process i would not want to tackle anymore but nice to know there are those that will and others offering help , wishing you the best of luck and looking forward to seeing the finished product


it will be a challenge, but will be easier once I know the sectional thickness of the stock where the front dial lays, and the distance from the back end of the forestock forward.


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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 12 2019 at 8:30pm
yes indeed , there are a lot of little nuances to reconcile - im just going through my head all the set up required to jig it in place and get the cuts right , sounds like a fun project if you have the tools - i don't anymore and my old eyes have great difficulty with the thousands of an inch required to get it right , 

i would cut a few blanks before i set that stock in the jig - like i said im old - not messin with these intricacies anymore unless i have the time and the inclination - but you do so good on you my friend , have at it , 


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 13 2019 at 5:09pm
The goods have arrived.
Not only is this stock set a work of art, it`s absolutely beautiful, also all the metal bits and then some, the best part is he included 2 unmarked end caps, one early and one later issue, plus a bunch of goodies I never expected.
Ralph is a real stand up guy.




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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 13 2019 at 5:22pm
nice , lookslike you got most of what you need in that pile of bits 


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: August 13 2019 at 5:55pm
Holy snappin sheep sh&t!!
What did he charge for all this? Sure looks like a great deal to me!

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: August 13 2019 at 6:33pm
End plates and is that the earlier style slotted shaft bolt head I see? Those bolt heads alone are something worth having.


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 13 2019 at 9:09pm
hoadie, this kit is the listing he has on ebay, he lists it there for $425 complete assembly kit.
I bought direct from Ralph, I explained what I was doing and at no expense to me he add a bunch of stuff he thought could help with the restoration, nice cleaning kit, stock discs, stacking swivels, even an original LSA 1938 sling spare bolt heads etc etc.
Nice score, great Guy he is.
Oh and the stocks are; nulli secundus!!


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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 13 2019 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by Bear43 Bear43 wrote:

End plates and is that the earlier style slotted shaft bolt head I see? Those bolt heads alone are something worth having.


Yes I believe it is, Ralph tried to find as much period correct stuff as he could, though he said he didn`t have much MkIII, mostly MkIII* and No4 stuff.
He`s going to let me know when the No5 sets are ready, I`m in for a set. He`s doing the non metal end cap variant. Then my NZ bush carbine will be back to a real No5 but sadly with drilled and tapped receiver...

Cheers


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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: August 13 2019 at 10:48pm
Now I am wishing I lived in Canuckistan! LOL  Just some of those early bits offset your cost. And that wood is gorgeous! I will get to the tracing for you tomorrow night and pics too. Work has been a pain this week.


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 14 2019 at 1:15am
Hey no worries. I know how work can be, Im run ragged right now at work myself.
Gun stocks and bits travel both ways across the boarder as long as its not parts that make it go boom.
Besides it'd only cost @ $10 US, our money aint worth jack.   lol

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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: 42rocker
Date Posted: August 14 2019 at 6:10am
Good Luck with everything and Enjoy the project. 
 
Later 42rocker 
 



Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 14 2019 at 8:09pm
i want to see her when your done , looks like your well on your way to this and maybe another should you get the hankerin or sell a few extras to recoup your costs n this one ???/


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 17 2019 at 11:26am
Got bit done on her over the last few evenings.
Mostly fitting the wood work, its been tedious, but coming along.
The stock isnt really a 1907 pattern stock so the swell where the front volley goes its quite beefy enough, but im going to run with it anyway.
I've layed it out based on my friends 1910, its close but not exact.
I found a windage adjustable rear sight with out the slider, so I need to go searching for an early slider.
Other than that I'll keep plugging away at her.
Having tons of fun with this project.
Cheers.

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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 17 2019 at 7:39pm
take your time and enjoy the process - "its got to be the goin not the gettin there thats good "


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: August 18 2019 at 9:45am
The stock isnt really a 1907 pattern stock so the swell where the front volley goes its quite beefy enough, but im going to run with it anyway.

??

What is it about the stock that makes you say this?

Is there a swell for the front volley?

If it does not have the swell, then I personally would not try to inlet the volley plate. It will look wrong.

I would resign myself to the fact that my rebuild would be replicating a post 1916 FTR. With new wood, that is what it would look like at first blush.


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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 18 2019 at 6:43pm
i missed that nuance of the post - thought he was saying it was an imperfect repro , i agree with simon on this - do not try to make the silk purse of a ...... you get the idea , consider what you have and where you want to get , but by all means post the progress for us to enjoy with you , 


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 19 2019 at 2:47am
Spent most of the weekend working the stocks, mostly sanding and final fitting, and a bit of metal touch up.
Tonite I'll start putting the boiled oil to it, then assembly, then some pics, then the range......

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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 19 2019 at 5:31pm
Don`t judge to harshly, this is my first total restore, most of my others have been fix this or that.
Only assembled for pics and to make sure of final fit, 1 coat of boiled oil still needs a couple more.
The stock disc is to commemorate My grand dad Jim who volunteered in 1915, the long number is his service No, kind of messed up the centering of the date. Embarrassed
Overall I`m happy with the  results, the stocks are very nice to work with, there is a lot of fitting required, they`re not drop ins, you need patients, and real sharp chisels, and a dremel helps lots.
Next step is to get more oil on the wood, and buff it out than take her to the range hopefully this weekend.
Cheers




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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: August 19 2019 at 5:54pm
Extremely well done there sir...


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: August 19 2019 at 6:17pm
Amazing...


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: August 19 2019 at 6:29pm
Great job very nice!

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 19 2019 at 7:18pm
im impressed , you done just fine , good on you , it turned out near perfect in my book - you have talent we were unaware of 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 20 2019 at 6:42am
Very nice.
Hug
Regarding BLO.
It will build to a point where it gets "blotchy" after 4 or 5 coats. That's normal, it means you're getting there. Keep going till you get an even finish (maybe a bunch of light coats.).
The original mantra was:
A coat a day for a week.
A coat a week for a month.
A coat a month for a year.
A coat a year for life!
I'd do the coat a day for a week internally too.
Its a slow painstaking process, but worth it in the end.




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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: August 20 2019 at 7:45am
Nice job on getting the inletting for the front volley! Sorry I didn't get stuff to you, I had a crazy week last week. Very nice rifle and well done.


Posted By: smerdon42
Date Posted: August 20 2019 at 2:15pm
very nice job indeed I am almost complete with my second resto on a lithgow 1915 was with the light horse in the charge of bersheeba 1917 . Somebody sported it so I feel like I need to bring it back .keep an eye out for volley sights to match the rifle they come up every now and then .i have a1916 Lithgow that has original wood but has volley sight plate ground flat with english markings .thank for your family’s service to us all


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 20 2019 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by Bear43 Bear43 wrote:

Nice job on getting the inletting for the front volley! Sorry I didn't get stuff to you, I had a crazy week last week. Very nice rifle and well done.

No worries, a buddy of mine graciously donated his 1910 to draw measurements from, its all good.


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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: August 20 2019 at 4:44pm
Looks good. Nice matching set. Is it all Ralph's reproduction wood?

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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 20 2019 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by englishman_ca englishman_ca wrote:

Looks good. Nice matching set. Is it all Ralph's reproduction wood?


Yes it is.....


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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 22 2019 at 9:18am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Very nice.
Hug
Regarding BLO.
It will build to a point where it gets "blotchy" after 4 or 5 coats. That's normal, it means you're getting there. Keep going till you get an even finish (maybe a bunch of light coats.).
The original mantra was:
A coat a day for a week.
A coat a week for a month.
A coat a month for a year.
A coat a year for life!
I'd do the coat a day for a week internally too.
Its a slow painstaking process, but worth it in the end.




Thanx for posting that, BLO is a slow process for sure.
What I do as taught to me by my grand dad.
Frist, fishish/sand/scrape(if you`re a purest) to your liking then thoroughly soak in BLO, let sit for a couple hrs, then wipe and let cure.
Over the next couple days apply BLO with a rag liberally let soak wipe and let cure.
Final application is sanded in using fine 400/600 w/d sand paper keeping the sanding paper and wood well wet with BLO, sand until it feels silky at that point its done. Sanding this way fills the pours and leaves a pleasing finish. let this sit for a bit than wipe down and buff with a cotton rag.
After this, occasionally apply as required(if the wood starts looking dry, or just before going hunting).



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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: August 22 2019 at 9:38am
Make sure you dispose of the linseed oil rags and keep out of the sunlight. They will auto ignite!


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 22 2019 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by Honkytonk Honkytonk wrote:

Make sure you dispose of the linseed oil rags and keep out of the sunlight. They will auto ignite!


Yes it does, ask me how I know Wink
Usually into a can of water or directly to the fire pit.


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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: August 22 2019 at 11:27pm
That's a great job! The wood is excellent.
Look forward to seeing the final finish and range report.


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!



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