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What 303 is this.

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Rifles
Forum Description: Anything that has to do with the great Enfield rifles!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9976
Printed Date: December 10 2019 at 5:14am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: What 303 is this.
Posted By: Zero
Subject: What 303 is this.
Date Posted: September 02 2019 at 8:46am
please help identify thanks



Replies:
Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: September 02 2019 at 9:19am
A fake!

Made over in the sand box by a master gun maker from scrap iron.


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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: SW28fan
Date Posted: September 02 2019 at 10:13am
Those stampings do look like the work of Mustaf in the Khyber Pass  even Maltby markings are clearer

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Have a Nice Day
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Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: September 02 2019 at 10:21am
Originally posted by SW28fan SW28fan wrote:

Those stampings do look like the work of Mustaf in the Khyber Pass  even Maltby marking are clearer

Made by Hoadie  in his weehoose out back.


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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: September 02 2019 at 11:02am
Show us the rest of the receiver with any other stampings please. 


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: September 02 2019 at 7:38pm
Khyber pass  rifle - you can do as you please but - it will one day become a collectible bit for we enfield folks [the ones who have everything and are looking for the oddities] because of that i would not destroy or trash it , 

as A RIFLE  it is junk , do not try to build anything - it was hand made with crude tooling and will not be safe , JM2CW 


Posted By: MarkG
Date Posted: September 02 2019 at 8:18pm
Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:

Khyber pass  rifle - you can do as you please but - it will one day become a collectible bit for we enfield folks

Yeah, I'd kind of like a Khyber Pass rifle because it would be an interesting piece of history. I wouldn't shoot it, though.


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: September 03 2019 at 6:12am
Whoa, whoa, whoa, everyone. Don't assume like that. You are all making assumptions on how the markings look. Have any of you looked closely at Maltby markings? They look like a drunk monkey applied them and I have seen legitimate Maltby marks that looked worse than this. Just because the markings are rough means nothing. We are not seeing enough pictures to determine anything at this point. I see a "47" at the top of the wrist. That typically means BSA. Next, it has what appears to be the early "England" import stamp on the wrist. The serial number is wonky but most of us have seen these old No 4's re-serialed. In a nutshe!!, there isn't enough information yet. So lets not damn the poor thing until we know more.


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: September 03 2019 at 6:49am
Agreed, Bear.


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: September 03 2019 at 7:33am
Originally posted by paddyofurniture paddyofurniture wrote:

Originally posted by SW28fan SW28fan wrote:


Those stampings do look like the work of Mustaf in the Khyber PassĀ  even Maltby marking are clearer


Made by HoadieĀ  in his weehoose out back.



OK, Paddy...just for that - I'm sending my buddy "Dorian" over to see you. He's gonna huff & puff and BLOW yer house down!

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: September 03 2019 at 7:59am
Originally posted by hoadie hoadie wrote:

Originally posted by paddyofurniture paddyofurniture wrote:

Originally posted by SW28fan SW28fan wrote:


Those stampings do look like the work of Mustaf in the Khyber Pass  even Maltby marking are clearer


Made by Hoadie  in his weehoose out back.



OK, Paddy...just for that - I'm sending my buddy "Dorian" over to see you. He's gonna huff & puff and BLOW yer house down!

Thanks Hoadie!

I fart in your general direction for that.


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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: September 03 2019 at 12:09pm
Are ther No4 type Khyber pass rifles in existance? I assumed they were No1MkIII or early types.

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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: September 03 2019 at 1:03pm
They are out there. The ones most commonly seen here in the US were imported by Tennessee Guns so that helps to spot them.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: September 03 2019 at 7:10pm
OK bear - those marks look typical kyber pass to me - combination of mfgr markings overlayed and none make much sense but if you see something im missing i am willing to listen more , 


Posted By: Zero
Date Posted: September 03 2019 at 7:20pm
thanks guys I will post more pics so you all can see it. 


Posted By: Zero
Date Posted: September 03 2019 at 7:27pm
I am going to half to try and get more pics the resolution is to high wont let me up load them. Their are markings all over the rifle. Letter T crowns Bnp stamp. Just no weight in tons stamp that I can see but I will post more pics tomorrow. 


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: September 04 2019 at 9:52pm
A_square, all I am saying is we need to see more to be certain. It is suspicious at this point, yes, but we honestly can't say definitely without seeing a bit more. I'm always the optimist Big smile


Posted By: Zero
Date Posted: September 05 2019 at 3:00am


Posted By: Zero
Date Posted: September 05 2019 at 3:03am
these pics had to be screen shot just to be able to get a low resolution to post on this forum. Lol oh well 


Posted By: Zero
Date Posted: September 05 2019 at 3:05am


Posted By: Zero
Date Posted: September 05 2019 at 3:06am


Posted By: Zero
Date Posted: September 05 2019 at 3:10am


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: September 05 2019 at 7:08am
Its definitely a rifle that has been sporterized at one time.  Can you post a picture of the flat side of the receiver please.


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: September 05 2019 at 7:20am
BNP is the Birmingham Nitro Proof marking that was introduced in 1954.

Somewhere marked with these proofs will be a tiny symbol of crossed flags with letters. I dont see it. This can give us the year in which the proofs were applied.

Just looking at the detail and machining, my gut tells me that this is a Brit made rifle not Dara.

If the rifle was configured at some time and used as a sporter, I would expect to see some blue or finish underneath the wood line of even a sporter front end. My thinking is that this barreled action has been sand blasted or caustic soda soaked to produce that overall stripped look.

Somebody's unfinished project?


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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: Zero
Date Posted: September 05 2019 at 7:24am
yes it has been stripped. It was solid rust when I got it. But here are a couple more pics 


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: September 05 2019 at 7:25am
I would say someone's unfinished project as well. The charger bridge is gone.


Posted By: Zero
Date Posted: September 05 2019 at 7:27am


Posted By: Zero
Date Posted: September 05 2019 at 7:29am


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: September 05 2019 at 7:30am
Lol. Good eyes Bear!

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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: Zero
Date Posted: September 05 2019 at 7:31am
I figure it had been modified at some point. I picked it up for free and thought it would be a good project to play with. But I dont know anything about these rifles and was looking for any info that would help. Thanks again yall


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: September 05 2019 at 11:51am
Looking at the overall condition from the photos; I don't think it would make a great project. 
You'd be better off spending your hard earned cash on a good condition No4Mk1 with matching numbers and a good bore. 
Once you've got the Enfield bug (you will get it if you buy one!) look for an interesting project that's worthwhile.


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Zero
Date Posted: September 05 2019 at 1:34pm
I agree I just had it looked at by a gun smith who is very knowledgeable on Lee's. He said it definitely is no4 mk1 that was sporterized at one point. Rear sight lugs milled off and barrel cut. And a redfeild sight installed. I think this project just turned into a lamp. It will make a great lamp for the gun room. Thanks for all yalls help.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: September 05 2019 at 9:41pm
bear , your optimism has proved wise , i appreciate that about you and your powers of observation , this one is an interesting study , i have nothing more to contribute at this point but who knows what we may all learn here , 

thanks for keeping our eyes open - it is the way to travel life , as well as to travel this journey into enfield rifles that is a never ending learning experience , 


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: September 06 2019 at 4:19am
I like the idea of making it into a lamp.


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: September 07 2019 at 12:21am
Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:

bear , your optimism has proved wise , i appreciate that about you and your powers of observation , this one is an interesting study , i have nothing more to contribute at this point but who knows what we may all learn here , 
thanks for keeping our eyes open - it is the way to travel life , as well as to travel this journey into enfield rifles that is a never ending learning experience , 


I always try to be optimistic on these ol' gals. Part of my powers of observation has been dealing with these Maltby's. Lord those are rough markings. In the end we all work together to decipher these things. I know you have taught me a lot over the years and I just do my best to pass it along.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: September 07 2019 at 7:10pm
agree there , the maltbys are rough ones , good that your young and can do this study , we need a good reference manual on those , 


Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: September 08 2019 at 4:13pm
Originally posted by Bear43 Bear43 wrote:

Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:

bear , your optimism has proved wise , i appreciate that about you and your powers of observation , this one is an interesting study , i have nothing more to contribute at this point but who knows what we may all learn here , 
thanks for keeping our eyes open - it is the way to travel life , as well as to travel this journey into enfield rifles that is a never ending learning experience , 

Keep it as it is, a bit of World history.
 


I always try to be optimistic on these ol' gals. Part of my powers of observation has been dealing with these Maltby's. Lord those are rough markings. In the end we all work together to decipher these things. I know you have taught me a lot over the years and I just do my best to pass it along.


-------------
Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.



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