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Reloading 303 with crimp |
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edteach 
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Joined: August 14 2023 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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 Topic: Reloading 303 with crimpPosted: September 13 2023 at 7:40am |
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I just reloaded some 303 British rounds. I used a set of Lee dies, with 47 gr of H414 and a 180 grain round nose. I noticed that the bullet could push in very easy. I bought but have not received yet a crimp die. Do you guys who reload the 303 use a crimp die?
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britrifles
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Posted: September 13 2023 at 8:39am |
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I did for only a very short time when I first started reloading .303. If your dies are set up correctly, there should be no need (nor advantage) to crimping. It does introduce another variable, and can arguably be detrimental to accuracy. None of the competitive shooters I know crimp their cases.
Are you F/L sizing or Neck sizing? Both should provide sufficient neck tension, typical neck ID's should be 0.002 inches smaller than the bullet diameter. I assume your loading a .311 diameter bullet? One more thing, presses have a significant mechanical advantage, so what might "feel" like a low seating force, could well be 30 lbs or more. Try pushing the tip of the bullet against your bench with about 20 to 30 lbs and see if the bullet moves. If it doesn't then no need to worry. If it does move, measure the diameter of the expander button on the decapping rod; it might be oversize.
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Goosic
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Posted: September 13 2023 at 8:55am |
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The only time you should ever need or want to crimp a cartridge case is if that bullet has a cannelure. If you try to crimp a case with a non-cannelure type bullet you risk deformity the bullet.
The RCBS XL14 Full Length resizing die using a .3075" expander will give the 303 case enough tension to hold a typical .310", .3105" and .311" projectile. After the cases have been fireformed you would want to switch to a Neck Sizing Die like the RCBS Neck sizer P/N15430 or the Lee Collet Die Set.
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britrifles
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Posted: September 13 2023 at 9:04am |
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As Goosic pointed out, there is a risk of deforming the bullet if you over-crimp bullets w/o a cannelure. The Lee Factory Crimp die makes a taper crimp (not a roll crimp) so it can be used on bullets w/o a cannelure, but be aware that your cases must be trimmed to all the same length, otherwise you will get varying amounts of crimping. If you go that route, don't make a heavy crimp, about 1/2 a turn down from contacting the case mouth.
My advice is to not crimp at all; if there is insufficient neck tension to hold the bullet in place with normal handling, you have a problem with the dies, they are expanding the necks too much.
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Goosic
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Posted: September 13 2023 at 9:16am |
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Many years ago I started using a ball expander from a 308W Die Set because I was shooting .308" 168grn BTHP loaded into 303B cartridge case for competition purposes. When reloading now using .311", .3115", or 312" projectiles, I will use that expander ball in a RCBC Neck Sizer and then run the case into my Lee Collet Neck Sizer twice, turning the case 180° after the first pull. It helps in negating any unnecessary runout.
Be careful not to buckle the shoulders of the cases...
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Goosic
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Posted: September 13 2023 at 10:29am |
Just out of shear curiosity edteach. Why are you exceeding the advertised maximum charge weight of 46.0grns and using 47.0grns of H414? Every publicized form of reloading data I have gives a maximum charge weight of 46.0grns of H414 when using a 180grn RN .311" projectile. Seems a tad excessive considering all the published data out there suggesting otherwise so, I am very curious as to where you have recieved your reloading data from...
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Shamu
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Posted: September 13 2023 at 1:30pm |
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I don't. its yet another variable & so I avoid it. A correctly made & used die should not need a crimp. That's actually a dodgy situation because bullet set back can increase chamber pressures considerably & with as hot a load as you're using that could be dangerous! Might the die be out of spec or someone changed the expander ball? What internal diameter does it measure at inside the neck, before, & after resizing?
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Goosic
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Posted: September 13 2023 at 1:51pm |
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A 180grn RN bullet seated out to 3.075" or 3.080" and using 44.7grns of H414 has always been an excellent and accurate hunting round for me. Always consistently staying in the realm of 2325 +- 20 fps when chronographed...
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Goosic
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Posted: September 13 2023 at 2:42pm |
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If you are looking to do some no frills target shooting, get some new PPU brass and some PPU 174grn FMJ-BT projectiles along with some non magnum large rifle primers and either IMR4064, or Varget. Charge the cases with 39.5grns and seat to a minimum OAL of 3.075" and do not crimp. You will have an averaged fps of 2425 and you should not have to worry about excessive chamber pressures if, the rifle/s you intent to use have been properly inspected and deemed safe to fire...
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britrifles
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Posted: September 13 2023 at 3:11pm |
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^^^^ This. That’s a great load.
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Canuck
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Posted: September 14 2023 at 10:02am |
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^^^^ That load will work well with factory iron sights.
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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
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edteach
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Posted: September 15 2023 at 12:30pm |
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I got the crimp, it works good.I just set it by running it down till it touched the she!! and then turned it just a quarter turn till the bullet was secure.
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edteach
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Posted: September 15 2023 at 12:30pm |
I posted 47 but I meant to post 45g. I pulled a couple of bullets to check and it was 45g.
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Shamu
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Posted: September 15 2023 at 1:16pm |
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Did you fix the original "too large a case neck issue", or just hide it? You won't ever load good ammo by simply burying mistakes with another add on if you don't fix the actual problem, the case neck I.D. after resizing.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Goosic
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Posted: September 15 2023 at 2:36pm |
Something is not right. If you have to use the crimping die to secure the bullet after seating it to keep it from falling or being pushed back into the case, something is not right with your reloading procedure. Are you resizing the the neck of the cases. Neck sizing? Are you resizing the cases and the neck. Full-length resizing? I just pulled a brand new PPU case out of its bag and then seated a .311" Hornady 174grn FMJ-BT on top of it without doing anything else and it was tight enough that I needed 25 foot pounds of force to remove the bullet from the case. Are you using .311" projectiles or are you using .308" projectiles? |
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britrifles
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Posted: September 18 2023 at 2:20pm |
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The Sierra Reloading Manual has a section regarding neck tension. It’s covered in the regular reloading section and also in the section on Reloading for “Gas Guns” (auto-loading rifles like the M1 and AR-15). This is to address bullet movement in the neck during autoloader bolt cycling, or for tubular magazine lever action rifles, revolvers and auto-loading pistols. This should not be an issue at all for bolt action rifles.
Sierra, and most all other manuals, recommend crimping should be avoided entirely in rifle cartridges by setting sufficient neck tension, which is achieved by sizing cases such that the neck ID is .002 to .003 inches smaller than the bullet diameter. If your using Lee dies, you can get undersized mandrels for their collet neck sizer or decapping rod with the integral expander for F/L sizer direct from Lee Precision. Have you measured neck ID of your sized cases? |
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edteach wrote: