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Reloading tolerances.

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philtno View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote philtno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2020 at 12:19am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

It’s tough to make progress with shooting anything less than one day a week.  I have found that being able to accurately call your shots is a necessary skill to enable improvement. 
.... 100 to 200 rounds a week, ....

I guess it's like any other sport....the more regularly you practice the better you get....this being said, that quite a blessing for those who have the time to go every week as - just taking your example of 100-200 rounds a week - that also represents some decent money, at least for us here, in NZ.
Every 303 round you reload costs you a minimum (really nothing lower than that) of NZ$1 - NZ$1.2...(NZ$ is no far from the US$) at the end of the month, that's a lot of bread taken from the table as my grand father used to say Big smile
Just by curiosity, what's the average cost per round where you guys live??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote philtno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2020 at 12:25am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

At longer ranges, the LE action has an interesting feature, the rifle seems to self “compensate” for muzzle velocity variations.  Slow bullets leave at a higher angle of departure and fast bullets leave at a lower angle of departure.  The fast and slow bullets meet at the same point of impact at longer ranges, at approx 800 yards.  I’ve noticed elevation spreads at 600 yards are better (in MOA) than they are at 200 yards. This is what made the LE rifle a formidable Rifle at long range in the Palma Matches.

Britrifles,
Can you please explain that "angle of departure" thing???or redirect me to the litterature that explains it? Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2020 at 5:48am
Philtno,

I don’t like to think how much money I’ve put into lead going down into the berm!  Here in the US, it costs me about 50 cents a round to reload.  I often say I wish I would have started this sport when I was much younger, but I could not have afforded it then.

The angle of departure refers to the angle the bullet leaves the muzzle and is influenced by barrel vibrations. Maj EGB Reynolds describes this in his book on page 137-140.  He also refers to this as the “Angle of jump is the angle made by the line of departure of the bullet and the axis of the rifle before firing.”  The angle of jump in minutes was calculated by measuring the mean point of impact of groups of three shots fired at 71 feet 4 inches for a series of charge weights ranging from 33 grains to 38 grains.  The tests showed that the faster bullets left the muzzle at a lower line of departure impacting lower on the target.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2020 at 7:16am
Yes the idea is to have the bullet exit the barrel at the end of its oscillation when firing because it that tiny moment the barrel is stationary, not whipping up or down.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2020 at 10:05am
I'll be trying out some Norma 202 powder soon. 
What are your recommendations for .303 in a No4 mk1 rifle and in a No1MkIII*?
To be honest, I'm getting some encouraging results with the Vihtavouri 140 powder; but it's not stocked at either of the places I normally go; so not practical in the long term.
 The cases will be PPU with Federal primers and 174 gr SMK's and possibly 174 gr PPU bullets.
I also want to try the Norma 202 in the 7.62 NATO loads for the L39. I use Lapua .308 cases and will have both 147 grain GGG bullets and also SMK Palma 155 grain bullets to try out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2020 at 11:01am
I use 40gr of the Norma 202 for the .312 174grn BTHP.  The recommended min is 39.0gr and the max if 41.0gr.

The recommended min of 42.0gr and a max of 43.5gr when using a 155grn bullet in the 7.62x51mm.
 I was using 40.0grns with the .308 168grn SMK but I have bumped it up to 41.7grns . If you go with that bullet,the min is 40.0gr and a max of 42.4gr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote philtno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2020 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

Philtno,

The angle of departure refers to the angle the bullet leaves the muzzle and is influenced by barrel vibrations. Maj EGB Reynolds describes this in his book on page 137-140.  He also refers to this as the “Angle of jump is the angle made by the line of departure of the bullet and the axis of the rifle before firing.”  The angle of jump in minutes was calculated by measuring the mean point of impact of groups of three shots fired at 71 feet 4 inches for a series of charge weights ranging from 33 grains to 38 grains.  The tests showed that the faster bullets left the muzzle at a lower line of departure impacting lower on the target.  
Thanks for that, Britrifles Thumbs Up
I found the pages where it talks about that....will read it more attentively Wink
Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2020 at 4:19pm
I admire the commitment and knowledge of shooters that are capable of some impressive precision with Lee Enfields on this forum! I consider members of this forum kind of mentors, as I've learned so much. Probably the best advise I ever received on this forum was the "minute of hand" rule. If my stock Lee Enfields with decent handloads can shoot a group that can be covered by the palm of my hand, I've got what that stock rifle was designed to shoot. This is how I judge every trip to the range now, and I've rarely come home disappointed. It took a lot of pressure (self inflicted) off me and let me learn to be a more relaxed shooter. The best, most precise loaded ammunition can not reach it's full potential without practice, practice and practice. It is just one component to the equation. Ammunition, rifle, person behind the trigger... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2020 at 4:27pm
and most often that last part of the equation gets ignored blaming all the other components - all my rifles shoot better than i am capable of shooting them anymore , i do not use a sled , i shoot offhand or bench supported but its always the guy handling the trigger to blame 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2020 at 4:39pm
Zed, the Norma website gives a velocity of 2454 fps with the minimum charge of 39.0 gr for the 174 gr Hornady RN bullet.  I’d suspect the 174 gr SMK with this load to be about 30 to 40 fps faster (less bearing surface contact with the lands).   I typically load the SMK to 2400 fps.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2020 at 8:06am
The most important link in the firing chain is "The big nut behind the trigger"! Tongue
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2020 at 2:20pm
Thanks for the loading data. I picked up the Norma 202 on Saturday and also some 147 gr 7.62 NATO type ogives from GGG. 
I'll check out their website for the 147 gr 7.62.
 Sounds like 39 grains is a good place to start with the 174 SMK for the No1MkIII and work up to 40 grains for the No4's. (The No1MkIII* tends to prefer a lower charge than the No4's).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2020 at 2:26pm
I.am reworking some load data for the 200grn .3105" FMJ rebated BT Lapua D-166 bullets I am going to retest this Wednesday.  Powder will be the IMR3031 this time...
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