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Rims jamming each other in the magazine

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Emerritt14 View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 07 2022 at 2:53pm
I recently picked up a Lithgow no 1 mk 3 made in 1941. I love the rifle. But I'm having trouble with using the chargers. When ever I load the rifle with two chargers and stagger them the way they are supposed to (3 down 2 up), the rims get jammed on each other in the magazine. When I try to pick up one round with the bolt it's rims catches on the second round below it causes the rifle to not cycle. Any help would be greatly appreciated 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2022 at 5:36pm

Is this how your are loading the charger?




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2022 at 6:21pm
This issue came up recently in another forum, and I also had rim lock at the range last week.    I am copying this picture which was posted on the thread.   This maybe a little easier to see than a live photo.  Someone said an easy way to remember is DUDUD.  Sorry about all the posts - i couldn't get the photo to load.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottz63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2022 at 6:56pm
Wouldn't DUDUD cause rim lock on the 1st and 3rd rounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2022 at 7:22pm
I thought the same thing, but this pattern was repeated by several posters, and is the pattern loaded into Brtifiles Charger.   I haven't yet investigated how this works!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2022 at 7:51pm
it was used by commonwealth forces for a long time in these rifles 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2022 at 3:49am
It’s always worked for me in the rapid fire stages where we must recharge the magazine.  I also haven’t tried to find out how it works, it just does.  Some of the commercial cases don’t have a well radiused rim on the back edge, which will allow the cartridge being chambered to override the rim on one below it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottz63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2022 at 4:51am
Interesting. I had thought it would be better to load the charger with every rim in front of the previous one.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2022 at 9:17am
Actual British and Commonwealth military ammo had a bevel on the rim to alleviate rim jams, commercial ammo made today not so much. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Enfield trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2022 at 9:43am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2022 at 9:49am
The BOTR vid does it well.
thumb position & angle is the trick, so is forcing them FULLY ALL THE WAY down.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottz63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2022 at 9:53am
Originally posted by SW28fan SW28fan wrote:

Actual British and Commonwealth military ammo had a bevel on the rim to alleviate rim jams, commercial ammo made today not so much. 

Hmm... Learn something new every day here. Thanks!


Just compared. Modern PPU ammo on the left, WW2 ammo on the right. You can clearly see more of a bevel on the back edge of the rim on the WW2 ammo.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2022 at 12:32pm
Maybe this will help?

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2022 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by scottz63 scottz63 wrote:

Originally posted by SW28fan SW28fan wrote:

Actual British and Commonwealth military ammo had a bevel on the rim to alleviate rim jams, commercial ammo made today not so much. 

Hmm... Learn something new every day here. Thanks!


Just compared. Modern PPU ammo on the left, WW2 ammo on the right. You can clearly see more of a bevel on the back edge of the rim on the WW2 ammo.




My PPU cases don’t have that undercut just in front of the rim.  How long have you had those cases?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2022 at 1:30pm
Something else you might consider is the actual loading process  as taken from pg.183 of The Lee-Enfield by Ian Skennerton: (QUOTE)
LOADING
(a) Turn safety catch to the forward firing position with the thumb of the right hand.
(b) Grasp the knob of the bolt with the forefinger and thumb of the right hand; turn it sharply upward, and draw back the bolt to its full extent. 
(c) Take a charger between the thumb and first two fingers of the right hand, and place it vertically in the charger guide.

[Pay close attention to the last sentence in the following paragraph.]

(d) Place the ball of the thumb immediately in front of the charger on the top round, and hooking the forefinger under the magazine,  force the row of cartridges down with a firm but continuous pressure until the top cartridge is engaged in the magazine. 
A further charger may be inserted IF necessary. (END QUOTE)

I cannot for the life of me remember where I had read about never fully charging the Lee-Enfield magazine because it can over compress the follower spring and tilt the follower enough to cause a rim jam and after reading this it kinda makes sense...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2022 at 3:04pm
It was a fairly common practice. Load with 5 so you were never "empty" on the first indication of "contact" slip 5 more in there.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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