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Sight Adjustment Tool

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Homer View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 14 2014 at 4:36am
There always seems to be discussion on front sight adjustment but I've never seen one posted like that on the right. Anyone else got one?
 
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paddyofurniture View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2014 at 7:32am
Where did you find this one?

Never see one like this one before.
Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.
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Shamu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2014 at 8:56am
Never seen one like it.
It might be a good basis for the "unhiversal" one I'm dreaming of though.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Zed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2014 at 12:04pm
That one on the right looks like it might be good for the SMLE's with the full ears on the nose cap; what a great idea. I've been thinking about how to make one for my No1 rifle, that looks just the ticket!
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Homer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2014 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by paddyofurniture paddyofurniture wrote:

Where did you find this one?

Never see one like this one before.


At a gun shop about four years back but I'd never seen one before that and havent seen another since. It works very well, not quite as positive as the other one pictured, but certainly 100 times better than a hammer and punch and you don't have to remove the nose cap. If I was making sight tools, this is the one I'd be making.
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Zed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2014 at 4:22am
Once you've measured how far the tip moves for one turn of the screw then your good to go. Definately need to see about making something like this.
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W.R.Buchanan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2014 at 11:26am
Or you could buy one of these.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MaxP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 2:28am
It strikes me as strange that of all the Lee Enfields I have owned and fired, including rifles I have re barrelled.... I have only once had to adjust a foresight... And I have NEVER had to change a sight blade height!

Is it possible that only the rifles in the US have sighting problems, and the possible reason for this is the almost exclusive use of 'factory' ammunition as opposed the MkVII ball the rifles were designed and sighted for. Maybe it has come about from too many home gunsmiths messing with them when they didn't perform with ammo they were never intended to use?

Not wanting to derail your thread, Homer, but is there any market for a home designed sight tool anywhere but the US?
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Homer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 3:19am
MaxP
Interesting you posted that, because it was only last weekend I was at Belmont range having a chat with three older gents shooting enfields out to 200 metres. I asked them how they adjusted the sights and if they used a tool and not one of them had had to make adjustments or owned a tool. I didn't ask what type of ammo they were using.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 4:49am
I had to replace the wood on my NO5. The factory wood had been sanded to the point it no longer fit & "glass bedded" so poorly it shot 18" patterns, not groups.
When the new stock was fitted it shot (probably like the original before it was messed up) to a different point of aim.

The No4 Mk2 still shoots dead on to point of aim as it left the factory though.

AS for shooting "factory" instead of "Surplus" that's a myth. If we can find or store surplus we shoot it. Unfortunately its hard to find find the last few years so we shoot what we can get. The alternative would be to gloat over unused rifles or shoot factory.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Zed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 7:28am
Agreed that once it's set properly, the front blade should not need adjusting; however in reality it may have been adjusted by someone to correct another fault. 
For example; my No1MkIII* was consistently shooting to the left and the front blade was already adjusted to the left by the previous owner. The actual fault was the rear sight blade was moving sideways due to wear on the fulcrum.
 With the new rear sight the rifle shot right of centre (due to the front blade being set too far left) now the front blade is centered and it's spot on. Both my No8's required very minor adjustments to get the centre line. Once set though, no need to touch it again.
I don't think the type of ammunition would have any effect apart from elevation change; which can be easily compensated for on the rear sight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 9:47am
Part of reason for folks in the U.S. needing to adjust front sights is that most of the ex Military rifles imported here for the last few decades have come from Countries that got them as aid after WWII. They often show signs of abuse or neglect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 9:49am
Guys: Zed is right on the type of ammo not affecting windage to any large degree.  But only shooting surplus ammo must greatly restrict your shooting.  Don't any of you guys Reload?
If your front sight is off then it needs to be adjusted.  Many won't need any adjustment, and especially if they weren't banged around or messed with. However if it is off, it needs to be set correctly.  This was obviously an Armorers job, and they had the tool to do it predictably so they didn't waste ammunition chasing the sight around.
 
I had to adjust my gun to the right 3.5" when I first shot it and I originally attributed this to the fact the gun came with a Mk2 rear sight and I installed a Mk1 sight.  However my Front sight is so cockeyed that it needs the blade off to the left in order to be aligned with the centerline of the barrel. See Pic  This is actually why it needed to be moved. Funny as I completely disassembled this gun and didn't notice the front sight until I started messing with it.
 
 
I was able to make that adjustment in just one move because I had made a tool that allowed a precise adjustment. I am a machinist and I can do this.  I'm sure others could to.  The idea of using a drift punch and hammer to do this is what a Bubba would do and would probably require divine intervention or blind luck to extract any degree of success in a reasonable amount of time.
 
Now that I have installed the Redfield Olympic rear sight I will probably won't have to move it again as that sight has a windage adjustment and that was the reason why I installed it in the first place.
 
There should be very little if any windage correction necessary between Ammo types.  Differences in ammunition generally result in elevation changes due to differences in Velocity, but that doesn't affect windage. Granted,,, sometimes it does make small changes however we are talking less than .5" at 100 yards.  With these rifles and their sighting systems it would be hard to detect what caused a 1/2" deflection in the shot.
 
I have a friend in NZ who has done extensive accuracy testing with Enfield rifles of all series, and all available ammo types. He has concluded that a really good Enfield is a 2-3MOA gun, and that was the benchmark for selecting guns to be raised to the "T" level at the factory.  Most are 3-4MOA and some are considerably worse than that. 4 MOA is 12" at 300 yards and still a viable Battle Weapon.
 
Even today most Military AR's (M4) shoot no better than 3 MOA. Sure they can be made to shoot well but with Iron sights or even Red Dot sights this is about as good as it gets. With Red Dot sights the average guy will never get a group smaller than the diameter of the dot.
 
With accuracy in this regime it would be hard to detect the need for minor windage changes. But I would be willing to bet that a WWII British Armorer who did nothing all day but sight in rifles, would have shot a 3 shot group and made a windage correction with his tool and then not even check it. 
 
After doing a few hundred rifles I think you'd get the hang of it.
 
With the #4 rifles 29" sight radius,,, .008 = 1 MOA.
 
My tool has 1/4-28 threads which result in .036 movement per revolution.  Since I use bolts with either Hex heads or Allen heads it is easy to move the sight one "flat," which is .006" or 3/4 MOA .
 
Another consideration that will help you guys extract a little more accuracy is the type of target you shoot at.  The front sight blade of a #4 is .050 wide.  That is 6MOA with this sight radius.  if you use a target spot that is a 6" square for 100 yards or 3" for 50,  it makes it much easier to index your front sight on the target by lining the blade up with the sides of the square and the top of the sight to the bottom of the square.  Obviously this must be done off a solid rest with a bag under the buttstock as well.  When you are cutting your sights to this degree no movement of the gun is acceptable.
 
Hope some of this helps you achieve greatness or at least have more fun.
 
Randy
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 10:02am
Probably 1/2 the members on here reload.
Many are happy with S&B, PPU or other commercial makers. My point originally was that the myth of who shoots what was just that, a myth.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Long branch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 10:10am
PRVI Partizan 174gr FMJBT shoots exactly 10" high and 6" left from both my 1950 longbranch and 1948 Fazakerly no4s. They clock at about 2300 fps. My handloads with 174gr BTHPs shoot 3" high and dead center. I don't know the muzzle velocity, but I bet it's in the 2450 range. It never fails that a slower load with the same weight bullet will shoot high (counter-intuitive. I know) and off center.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 10:19am
It was starting to sound like most guys were only shooting "Surplus Ammo."  That would surely limit the fun here in the US.
 
Friday Afternoon I made 480 of these,,,  Which will keep me shooting for another couple of months after which I should have a good Cast Boolit Load sussed out. Got a few things to try on that one.  These will be used primarily for shooting Short Range Silhouette Matches.  50,100,150,and 200 Meters.
 
 
I am still waiting for someone to get the Hornady 174 gr RN's in stock so I can get that load finalized and by then the 215 gr Woodleigh's should be here.
 
That would conclude load development for this gun and I would then just shoot the he!! out of it.
 
Glad to hear there are reloaders here.  1/2 the fun.
 
Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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