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Some Interesting Ammo

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britrifles View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 03 2022 at 6:15am
While looking thru my Dl Mk VIIz WWII service ball ammo, I came across this box of Dl produced Tracer and AP ammo.  The headstamp is Dl Z 1943 and 1944 with white and red painted bullet tips.  The red tip bullets are magnetic, so this might be the AP ammo.  Wonder if the tracer ammo still lights up?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2022 at 7:39am
Not sure in Canadian service but white tips are "marker rounds" in the U.K. IIRC?
Gives no trace unlike a tracer but a big puff of white phosphorous smoke on impact.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2022 at 7:55am
Cool, will have to shoot a few and see what they do.  Just in case they are tracer, I’ll have to fire into a safe area, sand pit or gravel bank.  Don’t want to start any fires Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2022 at 8:21am
All my 303 tracers were Red Tipped. Notice I said, "were."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2022 at 8:33am
My Dad’s handwriting is on the box indicates “Tracer”, but there are both white and red tipped bullet cartridges in the box, so I assumed one is AP, but I could be wrong about that.   The red tipped bullets are magnetic, the jacket is building metal, so the core must contain steel.  

I’ll shoot a few rounds of both into a steel plate and see what they do.  I’ve got a friend with a 200 yd range into a dirt/gravel bank that should be safe to shoot into.  I think tracers took about 200 yards to light up, so I may not see them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2022 at 8:44am
Arc them into the night sky in a safe direction, I did that way up north to get rid of all my illegal 308 tracer, about 150rnds, shot it out of my FN rapid fire, was so cool.
Then jumped back in my truck for a hasty retreat.
shoot em if you got em
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2022 at 10:22am
Found this article on the web, by Roy Tebbutt:  



So, both rounds are likely Tracer, which explains why both red and white tipped cartridges are in a carton marked “Tracer”. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2022 at 10:57am
This is getting fun.  Found another box marked “Cartridges for Collecting”.  In that box was 25 .303 cartridges of various types dating back to a 1906 Mk VI ball round.  Also, some sectioned bullets which helped identify the various cartridges.






Left to Right:

1906 Dominion Mk VI Ball, 1943 RG BVIIz Incendiary (blue tip), 1944 Dl Day Tracer (white tip), 1943 Dl Night Tracer (red tip), ZV 1956 Mk VIIIz ball. 

These two sectioned bullets below were unmarked. The one on the left is a blue tip bullet, Incendiary.  The one on the right must be a Armor Piercing bullet.  



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2022 at 2:06pm
Promise you'll take a video as you test fire them!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bubba ho tep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2022 at 4:52pm
I thought I recalled white tip to signify "day tracer"...really bright with smoke trail.  I had some 43 date many years ago and they were too old to ignite. Had alot of FN52 light blue tipped ammo many years ago...incendiary as it made alot of sparks on impact...I mean alot !. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Apprentice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2022 at 7:24pm
Question 

Do the Enfield Rifles have a chrome lined barrel?
If not are the tracer rounds hard on the rifling?

Still learning about these rifles
Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2022 at 7:52pm
Apprentice, I recently asked a similar question about tracers effect on an a FN FAL (semi-automatic Vietnam era battle rifle), specifically a L1A1 barrel - so using a 7.62x51 NATO round .  These barrels are often chromed lined.   I was advised by other shooters that modern tracer ammo is no more damaging than shooting a normal round.  

Now, a No.1 MkIII, which is the Lithgow Enfileds I own, are not chromed lined.   I don't know about your rifle, which I believe is a No.4 - but I doubt it is chromed line.   I will let experts chime in, but if you shoot modern tracers, with boxer primers, modern powder etc. the tracer should be fine.   If you shoot older military tracers, I am guessing the cartridge (corrosive primers), not the tracer will do more damage to your rifle.  My semi-informed 2 cents.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2022 at 2:06am
The tracer compound does not ignite until the bullet leaves the barrel.  The tracer rounds I have appear to have gilding metal jackets, so they should be no worse on the barrel than a ball round.  

I don’t believe any of the .303 barrels produced by the government arsenals or contractors were chrome lined.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Apprentice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2022 at 7:10am
Thank you all for the information 
I doubt that I will ever shoot any though my Enfield rifle but I wanted to learn more about the rifle barrel and what it’s capabilities are
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote bubba ho tep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2022 at 7:27am
The L1A1 rifles did not have chromed bores. They chromed chambers but not the bores.  The various metric patterns did not have chromed bores either. Tracer compounds are no more hard on the bore than corrosive priming is. Tracers are "ignited" in the bore but they have a delayed visible ignition. Generally shelf life on tracer chemical composition is 20 - 25 years to when it becomes inert. I have had old tracer ammunition that would not trace but impact on steel made nice red flashes , but that is the exception rather then the rule. I also found older tracer rounds that have spotty to no trace can sometimes be "helped"  to ignite if used in full auto weapons when the barrel gets up there in temperature. 
      
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote bubba ho tep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2022 at 7:32am
The only 303 caliber barrels I have ever encountered chromed are the Japanese type 99 7.7x58 caliber rifles made previous to 1944.  I had a late 1941 era type 99 that was minty and matching and it was a great shooter with that bore and peep issue sights. Other than the goofy "monopod" it was issued with it was a rather sturdy and efficient rifle. 
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