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Sporterized Savage No4 Mk 1/3

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klr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote klr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2020 at 6:37pm
Withdrawn from sale. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2020 at 12:34am
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

The face of the bolthead needs to be resurfaced to a length less than that of a #0 and firing pin protrusion needs to be readjusted as well.


It is interesting that when production of the L42 commenced they found that the "Number 0" bolt head was too big and a "Number 00" was manufactured specifically for the 7.62 No4 actions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2020 at 1:28am
I spent approximately 1 hour machining the face of the bolthead until I got the proper headspacing.  002" increments starting with a .628" bolthead.  The bolthead is now sized to .600"  .035" was removed from the firing pin to maintain a .045" pin protrusion. Not for the faint of heart when you get down to it...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2020 at 5:11am
Both my DCRA 7.62 Conversions (done at Long Branch) have a #0 bolt head that measures 0.629.  I would have thought that headspace was set with a chamber finish reamer?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2020 at 8:21am
britrifles: When you have to do all your fit and finish work by hand using hand me down parts designed for a different rifle, the outcome will typically not correspond with what a factory installation might have been. Unfortunately for me, I do not have the luxury of having a known source of correct No4 barrels chambered in 7.62x51mm NATO that would and should just  clock into position without having to reindex the extractor slot and i am forced to rely on my own ingenuity and a $350.00 mini lathe from Harbor Freight to make what I desire. I have to reindex a barrel designed for a 2A1 Ishapore reciever to have it correctly clock into position on a No4 reciever by meticulously and ever so slowly, removing metal,thousands of inches at a time,without relying on barrel shims until it indexes correctly. Because of this, I then have to resize the bolthead until proper headspace is achieved because again, I have to hand fit everything.  I then have to work the firing pin down to achieve the proper pin protrusion. You can actually just screw the barrel into place and mark where to cut out a new extractor slot and use existing boltheads to get your headspace correct but i find that sloppy and less than professional.  It also makes my creation a "One-Off" design and fit and finish is correct for "that" particular rifle. I am also unfortunate in that I cannot afford to buy a DCRA converted, L39A1, or L42A1. 
It might not jive with some folks thinking on how an Enfield should be constructed but i have been doing this same procedure for decades now and I know exactly what I am doing in regards to this.
If a job is worth doing, it is worth doing right...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2020 at 8:41am
I got it wrong - it was the L39 Target rifle that had the 00 bolt head.

Was having a browse through the Small Arms Committee minutes relating to the L39A1 rifle the other day and found some bits and pieces that I think I ought to pass on. Including some things that I never realized either!

The first bit is that contrary to what I firmly believed, that the rifles were built up to new rifle specification from ‘new’ components (including new barrels obviously) including bodies but the committee minutes state ‘….rifles converted from the Rifle No4 Mk1/2 and 2’ too. I was under the impression from the Armourers technical blurb that all L39’s were made ‘as new’. But this is clearly not so because Mk1/2 type L39’s will exist.

This COULD mean that L39’s were made from brand new, unused ex c.1955 Fazakerley bodies. It could also include USED ex .303” Mk2 bodies. It could also Mk2/1 rifles unbreeched and rebarrelled at the point of conversion to L39 at Enfield and it COULD include bodies converted to Mk1/2 but UNUSED since conversion at Fazakerley in the late 40’s to mid 50’s. However, no mention is made of Mk1/3 bodies.

Paragraph 3 of the build standard states that the rifles will be fitted with the stock butt of the No4 rifle, ‘….identical except that a small recess is machined under the knuckle to hold spare foresight blades in a suitable container. There you have it. The correct, ‘as-issue’ butt is that of the No4, modified as detailed above. But (if you’ll excuse the pun), more later….!

Para 8 of the build standard also states that the magazine will be the standard .303” magazine that will be used as a loading platform. It goes on to state that the rifle may be fitted with a 10 round 7.62mm magazine at the users request

Now here’s the surprise…….. Para 20 states that certain rifles are fitted with a special factory size 00 bolt head. ‘……..at the factory only, it is used when assembly tolerances require a smaller head than a ‘0’. The bolt head is special and is not provisioned as a spare’. 

Instruction 1 to the committee says that the first 50 EX type rifles (or should this be XL rifles?) were produced and procured with trigger pressures set to the SERVICE limits of 1st - 3 to 4 lbs and 2nd – 5 to 6.5 lbs. But subsequent series production is to be set at 1st - 2.5 to 3.5 lbs and 2nd – 4 to 5.5lbs pull. To cater for this permissible adjustment, the face of the sear can be adjusted to a maximum angle of 80 degrees ( to decrease the sear load pressure). Additionally, magazine catches with an additional sear spring location recess BELOW the original will be provided or may be encountered. There, that’s the answer if you have one on yours!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2020 at 9:36am
Interesting. 
From my perspective however, I am handed a barrel that from an outward appearance is essentially identical to a No1Mk111 barrel and is designed to fit what is essentially a No1Mk111 reciever. The barrel can be screwed onto a no4 reciever but the extractor cutout is almost 180° from where it needs to be and i have witnessed folk marking the spot and then cutting out a new slot. Not cool in my book. If I was gifted the correct barrel for the application ,this commentary would not exist. I have to.make due with what I have and that means that I have to be creative to achieve what it was I was after.  At some point in time I would love to own an original No4 rifle.converted to fire the 7.62x51mm cartridge that was factory equipped.  Based off of my limited income and the fact that those who do have an original typically would rather commit suicide than let go and pass down something to the less fortunate, I am left with making my own less than original copy and and a copy it stays however.
When I do my conversions , it is not done hastily. It is done according to measurements that were painstakingly taken and taken again. The machining process of the barrel mating surface is done in stages with thousands of an inch removed at a time and then checked and so on and so on until everything matches up. It has never been a plug and play scenario. My completed projects are a testimonial to the pride i take in creating such one off pieces. They are mechanically sound and proven to work without failure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2020 at 9:58am
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Interesting. 
F  At some point in time I would love to own an original No4 rifle.converted to fire the 7.62x51mm cartridge that was factory equipped.  Based off of my limited income and the fact that those who do have an original typically would rather commit suicide than let go and pass down something to the less fortunate, 

In the UK they are 10-a-penny (well, around $100-150) at auctions for both No4's and No3's) no one wants them, I took a couple I had to my local dealer to scrap them as I wanted them off my licence so I could buy other models.


There is a You-tube video of a Brit testing a No4 7.62 to destruction using 'magnum' rounds, he says the same - he used an Enfield No4 in 7.62 because they are 'worthless'.

Obviously 'originals' like Enforcer, L39 and L42 hold their value, but its a very different story on Gunsmith modifications - even using the original '7.62 No4 kit' with all 'proper' 7.62 parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2020 at 10:21am
Quite the shame in my opinion.  Someone who has the necessary skills and talents to make modifications using only what he has available and to do so with astounding proficiency is becoming a lost art. And yet, those modified items will more often than not be deemed,"worthless" because it is not a pedigree pony cut from the herd like the venerable L39/42A1. Interestingly enough. There are those who can and will quote standards and procedures from ages ago not having the will and fortitude to step off that path and venture into the unknown. Those that do make their own path are the ones who are shunned the most and are looked down upon. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote klr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2020 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Quite the shame in my opinion.  Someone who has the necessary skills and talents to make modifications using only what he has available and to do so with astounding proficiency is becoming a lost art. And yet, those modified items will more often than not be deemed,"worthless" because it is not a pedigree pony cut from the herd like the venerable L39/42A1. Interestingly enough. There are those who can and will quote standards and procedures from ages ago not having the will and fortitude to step off that path and venture into the unknown. Those that do make their own path are the ones who are shunned the most and are looked down upon. 

Clap Clap

...and just try selling something you've modified.  You'll get offered a pittance and have to drive halfway across the country to get rid of it. Wink LOL LOL LOL

But seriously, interesting discussion. Are the 308 versions more accurate than the 303? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2020 at 1:12pm
The accuracy between the two variants are marginal with the 7.62x51mm edging out the .303 only in the multitudes of cartridge options including specific match loads designed solely around the 7.62mm as opposed to a few choice options made available for the 303 cartridge. I have a match grade No4Mk1* Long Branch still chambered in the original .303B. It is fed one specific handload and at 100 yards has the same MOA as my Custom M700P in .308. At 200 yards and farther,the .308 shows a marked improvement over the 303.
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