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Strange Trainer's!

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Zed View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 27 2020 at 1:11pm
While flicking through the French arms site Naturabuy; I came across 2 bastardised No8 rifles that the sellers seem to think are all original.
Firstly a No8 (or No 8 Parts rifle) marked as an L2A1 converted to .22

The L2A1 is I believe a 1960's light machine gun!

Secondly we have an all original No8 trainer fitted with No1MkIII* type wood and butt.
Also has a magazine. One wonders whats inside where the trigger system should sit.


You'd think they'd read a book or two before trying to sell these bitzer's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2020 at 1:45pm
The L2A1 was a heavy barrel, full auto version of the L1A1 Ess Ell Arr rifle.
https://www.warstuff.com/uploaded/2013-10-28-imp/92915F15FjjAR2UKJrM4jmiUJqlikJu00AA6TDs.jpg

I'm not sure what that other one is! It seems to be the rear end of a No4 somehow attached to the front end of a No1 then converted to .22 RF!
Its Frank N Field!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2020 at 2:45pm
Looking at the photos and I have one question. Did the No8 rifles use No5 receivers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2020 at 10:26pm
yes Goosic. They used both No4 and No5 receivers to build the No8 .22's. I have one of each model.

The first one that is quoted as a L2A1 appears to be a No8 type bolt and barrel; but it should not have a magazine. The No8's have a completely different trigger system; which is adjustable and extends into the magazine well. Normally it has a flat plate cover which is held in by the trigger guard.
The wrist markings appear to be a No8. No clue why anyone would engrave it as a L2A1 in .22LR.
It makes no sense; an L2A1 would be illegal in France as it's full auto (even if it were .22) Very odd!
Maybe they were trying to make a L42A1 .22 and forgot to stamp the 4Wink

I think the second rifle is probably a No8 barrel with No5 type receiver wearing a No1MkIII* dress! 
Again the magazine is odd. So suspect the trigger is not correct. Looks to be marked as a No8 on the receiver. They are generally lightly marked .

The prices are high for a bitsa rebuild. Thats probably around top money for a good No8 here.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2020 at 4:09pm
fantasy bitsers in the best sense of salesmanship , i am certain there are those that will bid on them , but , buy the rifle not the story - or dont 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2020 at 8:14am
I sent a message to the guy selling the No8 with the No1MkIII type woodwork. Telling him that it's No1 woodwork.
He suggested it was an early model which made it more interesting!
I have since pointed out that they where based on the No4/5 type rifles and only ever had one type of woodwork; so it's not original.

Some people will do anything to try and get a few extra quid!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2020 at 8:32am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

I sent a message to the guy selling the No8 with the No1MkIII type woodwork. Telling him that it's No1 woodwork.
He suggested it was an early model which made it more interesting!
I have since pointed out that they where based on the No4/5 type rifles and only ever had one type of woodwork; so it's not original.

Some people will do anything to try and get a few extra quid!
A "gentleman " on eBay has a No1Mk111 magazine for sale. He is asking 300.00 USD for it.  It has had the bottom cut off and has been hammered down and welded together so now it is a five round magazine.  There is still welding sl*g on the seams and big nasty grind marks all over it. When I messaged him to ask about the why the price was so high, his response was ," it is a prototype! Only one of its kind! Do not attempt to send a lowball offer, I know what I have and what it is worth!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2020 at 8:53am
You just know that some sucker will end up buying it! 
Buyer's really need to do their homework or use reputable retailer's.

 The guy with the No8 is asking 1430 Euros, that is top money for a good all correct one; but over the top for a bubba
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2020 at 9:00am
A#1 rule:
"Never mind the story, buy the rifle not the tale".
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2020 at 12:59pm
That is the main reason I have resorted to making /converting my Enfields.  The price is so out of reach for me. You fine folk who own an original No7/8/9, L39A1 L42A1 or No4Mk1 T make me jealous and envious and I commend you for your endeavors to be able to aquire those fine examples. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2020 at 1:42pm
Double posted (again) - getting good at that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2020 at 6:05pm
ive always hoped to find a decent no8 but given up hope of having it in my lifetime , i have a few great examples of trainers in my possession now and will spend time with those in my waning years for now , life is good 

hope you all find yours as life goes on , do not buy the story - only the rifles 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2020 at 12:51am
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

[QUOTE=Goosic]That is the main reason I have resorted to making /converting my Enfields.  The price is so out of reach for me. You fine folk who own an original No7/8/9, L39A1 L42A1 or No4Mk1 T make me jealous and envious and I commend you for your endeavors to be able to aquire those fine examples. 

You have engineering skills 2nd to none and make some great rifles.

I have gone another route and like 'all originals' but it has taken many years to get there.
 
For a UK civilian I have a fair collection of 'live' Lee Enfields (L42, No4T, No7Mk1, No5, No1's, No4's, No2 etc) and a fair assortment of 'accoutrements and accessories'.

So far all of this has cost me £50 and a few 1000 hours of buying and selling over 30 years of auctions & ebaying. As each item was sold it was 'reinvested' in more parts.

My first buy was a PH5C sight at £50, which I then sold for £100, this progressed until I was buying £800 Lee Enfield Enforcers and selling them into the US and Canada at £2000-£2500 each.
I picked up at auction a 'box of Enfield parts' for £100, which included such treasures as original No32 scope mounts which I sold into Australia at £300 each

As the funds 'grew' I bought my 'collectibles' and carried on 'dealing'.

A lot of luck, being in the right place at the right time & being in a continually increasing market immune to financial crisis was a bonus.

As Thomas Jefferson is alleged to have said 
"I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2020 at 1:46am
That's a great way to build up a collection Armourer. Every piece is linked to the work put in.
My collection is quite small compared to some; but I'm happy with what I've got. But living in France means having to import some of them.
That in it's self takes time; normally around 3 months between purchase and actually receiving the goods due to all the paperwork. Although I have found all of my .22 Enfields here in France. 
The fact that they are good investments is secondary to the pleasure of owning and shooting them.
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