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The Solitary War of the Sniper |
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britrifles
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Topic: The Solitary War of the SniperPosted: July 31 2025 at 3:37pm |
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My copy just arrived and now flipping through the pages. I think this book will be a great read. I’ve already noticed some useful information regarding ammunition, cleaning and accuracy that I can compare to my own results.
This is the biography of British Army Sergeant Harry Furness. It contains much of his own writings to the author, Martin Pegler over a 20 year period. So, there is evidence after all that one of the unwritten tasks of the British sniper in WWII Europe was to scrounge for accurate ammunition! The promise to send forward the best and most accurate Mk 7 ball ammunition to the snipers was not followed through. He also discussed barrel life and replacement by unit armourers. Barrel life for the No. 4 T was considered to be no more than 1000 rounds! |
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paddyofurniture
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Posted: July 31 2025 at 3:58pm |
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Sounds like a great book.
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A square 10
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Posted: July 31 2025 at 7:58pm |
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that might be an interesting read , ive always wondered what they thought about in those hours of waiting , those with a spotter at least had company
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Sapper740
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Posted: August 01 2025 at 6:28am |
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Brit, I would be very interested in hearing if Sgt. Furness used any ammunition other than the regular issue Mk VII round. I had the old guard on another site harrumphing into their glasses of Scotch when I commented that I had read that snipers used "special match ammunition". I was simply posting what I had read but the cognescenti took great umbrage at any suggestion of special ammunition for snipers, if even on an individual basis.
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Shamu
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Posted: August 01 2025 at 10:27am |
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Rumor had it that scrounging the Red Label (aircraft machine gun) in preference to "regular" Green Label ammunition was an ongoing project. No idea if its actually true. It was just more reliable to reduce jams, but may have acquired a mystique. |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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paddyofurniture
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Posted: August 01 2025 at 10:37am |
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I had hear this as well.
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britrifles
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Posted: August 01 2025 at 1:54pm |
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Page 32-35 contains letters written by Sgt Furness on the subject of ammunition used by the Snipers in Europe. Its importance was described as “utterly fundamental to the success of the sniper.” This might seem obvious, but consider run of the mill Mk 7 may give 3 to 4 MOA accuracy, at 600 yards, that’s 18 to 24 inches and could easily result in a miss. Furness stressed the vital importance of the first shot finding the target. On rare occasions, a second shot may be taken, but that invited a counter sniper shot by the opposing side.
He said that “standard .303-inch service rounds did not provide extreme-range accuracy, … At sniping school, we were promised that rear supplies would send the sniping sections special batches of tested ammunition of a Match standard suitable for competitive shooting for instance. In practice, this did not happen…it was very important to try and find ammo from the best makers.” Winchester was favored and some batches of British Mk 7 that tested good were sought for. He also said Mk VIIIz ammunition intended for machine guns was used, but supplies were not plentiful. I would expect that with the higher muzzle velocity and streamlined bullet, the snipers would have to establish zero’s, at least every 100 yards, as the scope range index markings would be off by a fair bit, especially beyond 400-500 yds, but he did not go into this. |
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Shamu
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Posted: August 01 2025 at 4:42pm |
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Oh I'm not talking about The MkVIIIz stuff. It was infamous for
"Burning Barrels" probably because of blow-by with that odd rebated boat
tail. This was regular MkVII but mostly U.S. Made & the machinegun part was reliability, nothing else. ![]() |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles
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Posted: August 02 2025 at 3:26am |
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He does mention Winchester, but not specifically this “red label” stuff. Wasn’t this used for the aircraft Vickers guns? Probably not accessible to snipers operating in the front lines.
I suspect Furness is referring to regular Winchester made Mk VIIz ball. I might have some of that, definitely have some fired cases from WWII WRA headstamp. Here is what he wrote: “Later on, I discovered that our support medium machine gunners (Vickers machine gun), the 2nd Battalion Kensingtons, occasionally got special long range .303 supplies for specific shoots, then I used to go over to their slit trenches and offer my cigarette rations in exchange for a batch I could use… the cartridges were boxes marked MK VIIIz.” From Tony Edwards & Richard Tordoff’s web site on British Small Arms ammunition, the design of the Mk VIII bullet was changed in 1942 from the rebated boattail to a regular smooth transition taper, so I’d expect by 1944, it was the later bullet being issued in Europe. He gives the muzzle velocity as 2550 fps, pressure as 20-21 tsi. Doesn’t say what barrel length the velocity is based on, but I’d guess it would be the Vickers MG with 28 inch barrel (which would give perhaps 50 fps more than the 25 inch rifle barrels). He also says that Pamphlet 11 permits the use of Mk VIIIz in rifle and Bren guns when less flash is required i.e. at night. That may be another reason snipers used this stuff as they often took their shots in dawn or dusk conditions. |
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Sapper740
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Posted: August 02 2025 at 4:35am |
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While we're on the topic of snipers here's an article on how the Canadian Army treated members of Cpl. Furlong's sniper team in Afghanistan so despicably over specious reports of one of them 'desecrating' the body of an enemy fighter which they never did. While American troops lauded the Canadian sniper team for their good work saving lives to the point of issuing all members of the team Bronze Stars the Canadian Army sent them back home to languish while the NIS team desperately looked for evidence that didn't exist. This treatment of war heroes is so typical of a Canadian military besotted with political correctness and their story should infuriate anyone who has served.
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paddyofurniture
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Posted: August 02 2025 at 6:25am |
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I would be proud to salute them, shake their hand, and buy them a meal.
Let them log roll and push each other in my pond. True Canadians. Military fail them. |
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Shamu
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Posted: August 02 2025 at 10:59am |
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It's a common thing After Action. "sniper" = bad. ![]() |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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paddyofurniture
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Posted: August 02 2025 at 11:05am |
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Sniper, very good!
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Strangely Brown
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Posted: August 02 2025 at 1:27pm |
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I've been loathe to mention this because the last time I did it came in for a mauling by one of the resident experts on that "other" forum.
In the late 80's on a local gun range I often shot with a lad who had seen service in Northern Ireland as I had, his regiment, The Royal Anglican's known over here as "The Poachers" were stationed in Kent at Shorncliffe barracks. After our weekly revolver shoots we both swapped story's of daring do like most ex squaddies after a pint. Mick, (same name as mine) was not one of those people you associate with BS, his reminisces were always believable and had a strong ring of truth about them. His regiment had been "warned for active service", once warned anybody going AWOL could (and would) be court martialed. Weapon training ensued and the sniper platoon were not happy about the accuracy of the 4T's which rarely left the armoury. At this point it's worth mentioning that the British army didn't have a sensible cleaning regime for rifles in 1969 and the majority of barrels would have been extensively copper fouled. Add to that the ammunition would have come from Radway Green, who history records didn't have a good reputation; RG stopped .303 production 1973. These were the days of many squaddies having private weapons and shooting alongside civilians at local clubs, after a discussion at the local civilian gun club some .303 reloads (or possibly commercial .303?, it was a long time ago!) were obtained and proved more accurate than the issued the RG .303. Bearing in mind I was told this about 37 years ago and the event took place 56 years ago. The upshot was an ammo can swap of RG 7.62 for a similar quantity of club .303. This happened at a time when some Infantry regiments were a law unto themselves and having worked alongside the Royal Green Jackets in 1973 I can well believe the authenticity of the story. My memory seems to think that Mick may have been the sniper platoon sergeant? |
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Mick
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Sapper740
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Posted: August 03 2025 at 4:04am |
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Mick, I have no doubt snipers would do whatever it took to give them an edge when going into combat no matter the regulations. Sgt. Bill Carey, the famed Canadian sniper of WWI would dump an entire bottle of oil into the action of his Ross before setting up in his hide in order to be able to quickly get off subsequent shots should he miss on his first. He claimed that saved his life once as both he and a German sniper missed on their first shot but with the slick action of the Ross amply aided by the oil Sgt. Carey was able to get off a second shot before the German thereby ending the discussion.
It's unfortunate that some very extensively experienced men refuse to accept that which they hadn't seen during their time in the military. Derek
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Zed
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Posted: August 03 2025 at 11:13am |
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I have a box of the Red label ammunition, for synchronized guns. While the production of this round was obviously for aircraft guns. It would be strange to pack aircraft ammunition in boxes of 20 rounds.
So it would make sense that the boxes of 20 rounds were packed for bolt action rifles, because it's not even going to fill a Bren.
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