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VihtaVuori N140 Loads

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Zed View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 31 2020 at 11:37am
Thats very nice indeed. 
I still have not got to the 200 metre range to try out myloads yet. I've been palying with the No8 last weekend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2020 at 5:30pm
It will soon be September and I’ve somehow managed to shoot all the way thru our hottest months, one hot month left.  

Today was very uncomfortable, 80 degrees and 90% RH.  I forgot to bring my fan, my glasses fogged up with every breath.  Had to hold my breath for 15 seconds until my glasses cleared to take a shot.  

I was back to test 39.5 gr N140 with 174 gr SMK.  Five 10 shot groups fired.  This load grouped very well in my 0LXxxxx Long Branch Mk 1/2.  Orthodox forend bedding (4.5 lbs at muzzle bearing).  Slung up in Prone, 200 yard groups were all under 3 MOA extreme spread, 9/10 rounds grouped on average at just over 2 MOA.  The odd flier was all on me and all were to call.  Decent X ring count, 4 to 5 out of 10 shots.  Perfectly good load for the Vintage Military Rifle matches.  



I then went on to test 39.0 gr N140 in my Fulton Mk 1/3 69Lxxxx Long Branch, groups were horrible, stray shots not to call out in the 8 ring.  After the second group, I suspected a problem with the electronic targets so I moved over one firing point and it was much better.  

Last thing I need is to start doubting these electronic targets.  This system at the Talladega Marksmanship Park has been a huge time saver for me, but I fear they are not being maintained adequately and the targets are getting shot out making the sound sensor calculations unreliable.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 2:26pm
 Thanks Zed, please let us know your next set of results with N140.  That 5 inch five shot group at 200 meters is better than my groups.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2020 at 1:12pm
I was on vacation when you posted your latest results. I'm not as good a shot as you that's for sure. 
Don't get enough practice. On my last outing with the No1MkIII* I was using the 38.6 grain load as mentioned. My first group of 5 shot's (without looking through the spotting scope) where high on the target, edge of black. But group measured 5" across the diagonal, 4" deep and 4" wide. Shot at 200 meter's using sling in prone position. PH5A rear sight. I was pleased with that group size for me at that distance.
I believe the shot's were high because I have reworked the shimming under the know form and reset the fore end up pressure. It's basically standard bedding with a bit of attention to detail around the knox form and recoil lug fit. The next shot's were used adjust to get to centre target. So not as good. I've got a another batch loaded for testing now. I'll be having another look at the 7.62 with the SP7 powder as well; although I want to try the 140 in that too.
I've been shooting the .22's recently; hoping to hone my concentration to help with my irregular shots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 303 Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2020 at 7:53pm
Besides the fliers it's still sum nice shooting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2020 at 3:53pm
Back to the range today to test 39.5 gr N140 with the 174 gr SMK.

I also shot four 10 round groups with my usual 40.0 gr VARGET match load to compare.  Total of eight 10 round groups at 200 yards, all shot prone in sling on the NRA Short Range (SR) Target.  

Fulton No. 4 Mk 1/3 69L Long Branch, Mk 1 aperture sight.  

The fourth group with the N140 loads looked the best, the first 5 shots were at just over 1 MOA.    




Here’s all 10 shots, shot #7 was not called, another pesky flier.  Excluding that shot the group was just over 1.5 MOA. 




Results:

39.5 grains N140, 174 gr. SMK

GP#  C-C (in)  MOA  Score   Notes
 1       7.81     3.90   99-4x  1 flier at 1:00
 2       7.48     3.74   99-2x  1 flier at 4:00
 3       6.09     3.04   97-2x  3 shots low
 4       6.02     3.01   99-7x  1 flier at 5:00
AVG               3.42   

40.0 grains VARGET, 174 gr. SMK

GP#  C-C (in)  MOA  Score   Notes
 1       4.80     2.40  100-4x
 2       6.76     3.38   99-4x  1 flier at 5:00
 3       6.30     3.15   99-6x  1 flier at 5:00
 4       7.20     3.60   98-5x  1 flier at 12:00
AVG               3.13

Varget did a bit better and a higher total X ring hits (19/40 with Varget, 15/40 with N140).

Of the three charge weights of N140 tested (38.5, 39.5 and 40.0), 38.5 gr was best in terms of group size.  

I’m finding my groups are opening up with this rifle. What used to be a solid 2 MOA rifle in prone slow fire has started throwing fliers.  It used to be rare to throw a shot out of the 10 ring.   I’ve put a lot of rounds thru this barrel, perhaps 8,000 to 10,000.  The throat is very long, it may be a candidate for the new criterion barrel.

Or maybe it’s just me. It might be time for a new prescription for my shooting glasses.  










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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2020 at 5:48am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

For my No1MkIII* I'm using 38.6 grains of N140 with PPU brass and 174 grain SMK's. It seems to be quite good and very easy on the shoulder. I don't get much range time; so need to shoot more with these to confirm and maybe push a bit higher to see if it get's better. 
My friend who shoots the National Service Rifle competitions had settled on 40.0 grains and 174 SMK's for his number 4Mk1 rifle. He was getting good results with that. I have yet to try a load for the No4 rifles. But will probably start from 38.6 and work up in 0.2 increments.

Zed, 

 I would be very interested in hearing how your 38.6 N140 load shoots, that’s essentially the same load I tested, same cases too.  I was using WLR primers, only 1/10th grain less powder.  Also, any info on your friends 40.0 grain load (average group C-C spread).

I went back thru my target score book yesterday and found that the 40 gr N140 load produced groups that are on average almost 1 MOA larger than my 40 gr Varget load.  Next time out, I will shoot alternate 10 shot strings with 40 gr Varget and 40 gr N140.  The 40 rounds (four 10 shot groups) I shot with 40 gr N140 should have been enough to get a stable average group size.   

These two loads do not produce the same velocity, I get a 2 MOA difference in bullet MPI at 200 yards.  






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2020 at 5:18am
UPDATE

I was back at the range yesterday.  Typical Alabama summer day, hot and humid.  No storms though...

I increased the charge weight from 38.5 to 40.0 gr.  That always seems to work with numerous other powders for me in the .303.   But not for N140.  Group sizes opened up a bit.  

Here’s the results of the center to center extreme spread, shot prone in sling, 69L No. 4 Mk 1/3 with Mk 1 service aperture sight, 10 round groups, 200 yards, NRA SR target:

38.5 grains N140, 174 gr. SMK:

 GP#   C-C (in)   MOA      Score   Notes
   1      4.30       2.16      84-0x   Shots low, raised sight 3 Clicks after this group
   2      8.00       4.00      97-1x   Vertical stringing, group slightly left
   3      5.12       2.56      97-1x   Group slightly left 
   4      4.61       2.30     100-4x  Held slight right to center group
 AVG   5.55       2.75        -

40.0 grains N140, 174 gr. SMK:

GP#   C-C (in)   MOA       Score    Notes
   1      5.63       2.81       95-1x   shots high, lowered rear sight by 3 clicks after this group
   2      5.98       3.00      100-2x  
   3      6.18       3.08      100-1x
   4      7.08       3.54        98-1x  two fliers to left not to call
 AVG   6.21       3.11          -

These two loads were shot on different days, I was getting tired by the end of the 40.0 N140 load test, you can see the groups gradually opening up.  However, my conclusion is that increasing from 38.5 to 40.0 grains gives no improvement.  I’m going to test 39.0 and 39.5 gr. 

The 38.5 gr load performed well except one group showed vertical stringing that was not called, excluding that group, the average extreme spread was 2.3 MOA which brings it in line with my 40.0 gr Varget match load.   It may just need a bit more powder to stabilize.

Why am I bothering to do this?  My go to powder VARGET has been unavailable for a few years and I need to find another good load for shooting matches.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2020 at 4:40pm
Pretty much why I use it exclusively between the 303B and the 308W using the Norma powder. That and it is exactly between the minimum and maximum charge weights per Norma's manual. No fuss, no muss. Load and go...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2020 at 4:24pm
I recently tested 40.0 gr IMR 4064 in two of my No. 4 rifles and it shot very well.  As does 40.0 gr Re 15 and 40.0 gr Varget.   40.0 seems to be the magic number...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2020 at 8:47am
For my No1MkIII* I'm using 38.6 grains of N140 with PPU brass and 174 grain SMK's. It seems to be quite good and very easy on the shoulder. I don't get much range time; so need to shoot more with these to confirm and maybe push a bit higher to see if it get's better. 
My friend who shoots the National Service Rifle competitions had settled on 40.0 grains and 174 SMK's for his number 4Mk1 rifle. He was getting good results with that. I have yet to try a load for the No4 rifles. But will probably start from 38.6 and work up in 0.2 increments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2020 at 4:33am
 Went out yesterday to test the V140 load:

PPU Case Neck Sized
WLR Primer
38.5 gr N140
174 gr Sierra MatchKing
3.06 inch COAL

Fired from my No. 4 Mk 1/3 Fulton Regulated 69L Long Branch (barrel is center bedded), with Mk 1 aperture rear sight.  

Average of four 10 shot groups was 4.6 inches extreme spread at 200 yards prone in sling (2.3 MOA). The bullet MPI was 3 MOA below my regular match load (40.0 gr Varget).  

First five shots on the first group was under 1 MOA, but hit at the bottom of the black aiming mark with the rear sight set for my regular match load.  



I knew this was going to be a light charge, I’ll step up in 0.5 gr increments, but I’m quite pleased with this 38.5 gr load and would be fine for short range work.

This powder meters very nice in my Redding measure, the sticks are short.  I will not have to weigh all chargers with this powder.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2020 at 2:31pm
I like the way this powder meters in my Redding measure.  The sticks are short.  I started with 38.5 gr.  I suspect that might be too light, although the VV load data indicates velocity should be about 2380 fps with the 174 SMK.  I’m only shooting to 200 yards, so don’t need a lot of speed.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stanforth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2020 at 12:38pm
That's almost the load I use. My load is 40 gns. of N140. I use the same load (in 7.62 NATO) in my Enfield Envoy both with satisfactory results.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2020 at 10:29am
Anyone try N135 or N140 in the .303?  I just received my order from Bruno’s (thanks to Goosic for that suggestion).  I’ll be loading the 174 gr Sierra MatchKing.  VV website gives min of 38.4 and max of 41.7 gr. of N140 with this bullet.  My plan is to try 38.0, 38.5, 39.0, 39.5 and 40.0 looking for best accuracy. 
 


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