Enfield-Rifles.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Reloading > Reloading .303 British
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Neck vs FL Resizing
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Neck vs FL Resizing

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 12696
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Neck vs FL Resizing
    Posted: July 15 2020 at 6:18pm
You might try what I do for "casual" (plinking)l rounds.
Take 5 or more fired cases from each rifle.
Get one of those case measuring dinguses. you know the sliding rod with the comparator inserts for the case.
Now record the longest & shortest measured to the shoulder.
Partial F/L size to THAT dimension for everything except "match rounds".
Its not as precise as measuring each one individually & segregating them, but it IS minimal "universal" case resizing. Wink
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 2365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2020 at 1:37pm
Zed,  thanks for this information.  I’m nearing this same conclusion with now having to manage 4 separate lots of brass for my three No. 4 rifles and my Dad’s T. 

How many reload cycles do you get with your brass using this method?  

Your 200m target 10 ring at 3 inches is a challenge.  That is the diameter of our X ring at 200 yards.  Have you or anyone else managed a score of 200/200 (or 100/100 for that matter) on that target prone with any vintage service rifle?  I just haven’t been able to crack that nut, 9/10 consecutive shots is the best I’ve done.  I think 20/20 would be next to impossible (for me anyway).  

I see you are also trying N140, I just loaded up 40 rounds to try.  I’ll report results when I get to the range.  I’m starting at 38.5 grains with 174 SMK.

Goosic, this might explain something you said on another thread, I suspect FL sizing results in shorter case life than neck sizing, perhaps substantially.   I’m going to run that comparison with new brass, I won’t fully resize (won’t screw die down all the way to she!! holder) but set up the die to size to just below chamber length + bolt head clearance.  This should still get the case to headspace on the shoulder, but ensure the bolt locks easily.  This might be the ticket. 




Back to Top
Zed View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: May 01 2012
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2020 at 12:16pm
I gave up neck sizing when I got to the range and found the bolt wouldn't close on the ammo. Having reloaded the cases from one rifle for a different one. So now I've adjusted my Dillon rig to just resize the case enough to fit any of the .303's. That way I'm sure I won't turn up to the range with dodgy ammo.
I started off having different tin's for used brass; but when cleaning and trying to reload seperately for 3 different rifles I found I just don't have the time. The partial resize makes life easier for me for case peparation.
Then I can just load for each rifle; although this is still a work in progress. Difficult finding enough time to get to the 200 metre range and our 50m range is currently closed to large calibre rifles.
Regarding accuracy; most of the errors are my fault, so until I get some improvement in regularity of my shooting. (That really means more range time) I consider my current load for the No1MkIII* to be quite good; so I'm not changing it at the moment. Last time out with this load with newly fitted PH5A rear sight; first 5 shots from prone with sling; got approximately a 4" by 3.5" group, with about 5.5" diagonal of furthest spread at 200 metres. I was happy with the group size; but it adjusting the sight to centre got a few unforced errors on my part. So need to go back now it's zeroed and concentrate! Still need to finalise loads for the no4's with the new powder (Vita Vouri 140).

A friend of mine does a lot of Service rifle competitions and plenty of practice. He shot a 195/200 in practice with his 1903 Springfield. He called the two 8's left of centre, but had a group of 7 in the 10 within 1.5 inches. This is at 200 metres, prone with sling. (The 10 is 8cm ,about 3"). I enjoy shooting with him; as it shows me what is possible with practice. He's free with advice too!
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
Back to Top
Goosic View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 4506
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2020 at 11:13am
Full length resizing.  I run each case through the resizing die two times slowly and then trim to length.  For the 303B 2.215" and for the 308W 2.005". Once my initial trim to length is done after the first resize, I typically do not have to retrim the caaes until the forth or fifth reloading session.
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 2365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2020 at 10:56am
The fun never stops!  😊😊😊

Goosic, what is your case resizing routine?  Neck size, F/L size, partial F/L, all three?


Back to Top
Goosic View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 4506
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2020 at 9:56am
I guess I have some testing to do now. 
The M700P using The Mexican Match loads and the No4MkI* LB with be using the GRAF BTHP. 
Should be interesting. 😎😎😎
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 2365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2020 at 4:21am
Goosic, Sweet didn’t say, but I’d expect it was 10 rounds, that’s usually what is considered “a group”.  He also didn’t say if it was handloads with match bullets or Mk 7 service ammunition; scoped rifle or aperture sights; bench or prone.  These things make a difference.  

I’ve never been able to shoot a group that small prone, unsupported, with aperture sights.  About 1.5 inches is the best I’ve done.  More like 2 to 3 inches on average.



Back to Top
Goosic View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 4506
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2020 at 8:55pm
(Jerry Ward was said to have shot a 3/8 inch group at 50 yards)
How many bullets in the group britrifles?
I put ten shots inside a penny @ 100 yards, .750" with that Long Branch. 
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 2365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2020 at 6:45pm
Long Branch, what you have described is exactly what I have been doing for many years, except that I am now a bit more precise in how far I move the shoulder back, no more than necessary to be able to easily lock the bolt.  

I have annealed case necks before but I’ve not noted any improvement in accuracy.  I’ve also very rarely, if ever, experienced a neck crack in my .303 brass, always head cracks.  
Back to Top
Long branch View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 08 2014
Location: Georgia, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 207
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Long branch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2020 at 4:22pm
Essentially, the more brass you move, the shorter the case life. There is a lot of space in an enfield chamber, especially at the shoulder. Sizing back to SAMMI spec moves a lot of material and makes for a short case life. 

Neck sizing will give you the longest case life, but chambering starts to become difficult after a while.

For those who don't know, partial full length sizing is done by setting the sizing die so that it sizes the neck and case walls but not the shoulder (at least no more than necessary for easy chambering). This is what I do with brass meant to be used in magazine-fed rifles.

If you're not getting feeding problems with neck sized brass, I would continue with that until chambering starts to become difficult. Then, I would do a partial full-length size.

You can gain accuracy with factory ammo by selecting rounds by rim thickness. With ammunition loaded with either of the two methods above, you'll be headspacing on the shoulder, and the rim thickness won't be relevant anymore (that involves a long explanation about what headspace is and what it does that I'm sure nobody wants me to go into).

If you're getting neck cracks, the occasional annealing cycle will mitigate that largely. It just depends on how much work you want to put into it before you buy new brass. You may also find that your loads are more accurate if you anneal the necks every 3 or 4 loadings.
Back to Top
303 Hunter View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 14 2019
Location: Alberta, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 217
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 303 Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2020 at 3:33pm
The Lee collet neck sizing die is the one I have.
After reading the posts here I was thinking about the “partial resizing” method
The Lee Enfield is to the Canadian north what the Winchester repeater was to the American west.   Cal Bablitz
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 2365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2020 at 3:15pm
303 Hunter, you might benefit from the “partial resizing” method to extend brass life.  You can also buy the Lee .303 collet neck sized separately.  


Back to Top
303 Hunter View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 14 2019
Location: Alberta, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 217
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 303 Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2020 at 3:10pm
I don’t shoot as much as others on here do, but I have been full length resizing my brass with Lee dies and I have only just lost some cases to head cracking.
Those cases are part of an odd assortment of brass from factory loads that I’m trying to use up.
The cases I lost were Winchester and were reloaded about four or five times.
I have a Lee neck resizing die but can’t get it to squeeze the case necks enough for sufficient hold on the bullet.
The Lee Enfield is to the Canadian north what the Winchester repeater was to the American west.   Cal Bablitz
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 2365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2020 at 1:11pm
Sham, right, but I do find neck sizing with a collet die so much quicker.  Here lately, I’ve been shooting upwards of 200 rounds a week, so neck sizing is a major time saver.  

Perhaps I should consider a fixed interval of “partial FL sizing”, more frequent than I do currently, perhaps every fifth neck size.  Have to track all that to...

I do believe that fully resizing the .303 case back to SAAMI specs (i.e screwing the die all the way down to the she!! holder) excessively works the brass and will shorten case life, perhaps to only 5 reload cycles before case heads crack. That’s too expensive for me.  


Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 12696
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2020 at 12:30pm
As I posted on the other thread. I found the "perfect" for me method was the "Partial Full Length Resize". I find it gives me the best of both worlds & apart from initial set up of the dies is the same workload as full length resizing.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 2365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2020 at 6:13am
 Here is what James Sweet said about headspace, rim thickness.  This was not about reloading, as competitions at that time used issue Mk 7 Ammunition.  But, the statement about erratic shots when “extra force is needed to close the bolt” is interesting.  

James Sweet was a competitive Service Rifle Shooter, Queens Prize winner, wrote a book titled “Competitive Rifle Shooting”.  You will recognize the name if you use Sweets 7.62 bore cleaner.  




He also stated that a very high degree of accuracy can be obtained by sorting cases by rim thickness (Using a rim thickness gage) and selecting a bolt head that gives headspace just over rim thickness.  Jerry Ward was said to have shot a 3/8 inch group at 50 yards with headspace adjusted to regular rims.  That’s remarkable if it’s with Mk 7 service ammunition.  I’ve not tried this yet, but I do like to have headspace set at or just above minimum.  




Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.