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No4 MK1

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Jonnybravo View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 16 2020 at 10:52am
Hi all,
Have a new toy that I found in a trash can. Trying to bring it back to life! It’s a M47 / 1943 : No4 MK1.
It needs a Complete bolt And magazine. So far I located a NOS bolt for $38 , repo firing pin $17, original bolt head(Complete and used ) $22. One big question I have is what size bolt head to get.(0,1,2,3,)? Also, is an NOS bolt the way to go or just get a used one in very good condition? The rifle was coated in basement storage rust but cleaned up with a good soak in evaporust. 

If anyone has parts or good place to source parts, let me know. 

Thanks,
Dave
Thanks,
Dave
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Shamu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 12:54pm
Both the bolt & the bolt head need fitting, they aren't "drop in" parts.
The bolt has 2 recoil lugs & they must bear equally on the recesses in the receiver to be safe.
There are a couple of tutorials on how to do it on here.
There's no "right" head number either.
What you're trying to do is have the bolt close fully & lock with both lugs bearing to handle firing stresses & the gap between the front of the bolt head face & the rear of the barrel between 0.067" & 0.074" but longer than 0.064" absolute minimum. You also want the ribs to align but not go past 15° maximum.
After all that you then set the firing pin protrusion. Its done last because the other two adjustments will effect it.

There are gauges (Headspace gauges) for measuring this, but they are getting scarce. They are called "No Go, Go, & FIELD" but the thickness is the important part rather than the name.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Jonnybravo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonnybravo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 3:02pm
thanks for the info on that! Also, is this rifle picky on the ammo brand? Which brand and grain work well in this?
Thanks,
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 3:25pm
In my limited experience shooting several different Lee Enfield rifles, each rifle will tell you what shoots best. Lots and lots of experimenting with brass, powder, and projectiles. I would say start with buying a box of factory 180 and 150 grain Federal (or whatever brand you prefer). Find out what projectile weight your rifle prefers. Once you find that out, stick with that projectile weight, then you will need to start experimenting with different powders, charge weights, etc... or you could kill 40 deer with those two boxes of factory ammo that will both probably produce a grouping with 10" at 100 yards. More than adequate to hunt venison within reasonable range. I didn't count how many rounds you would to shoot to see where the rifle puts these bullets on paper, so let's say you have enough rounds left to kill 25-30 deer. If either round can't produce a pattern within 10" @ 100 yards, the rifle itself has some issues. Best of luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 3:33pm
Why was it missing the bolt and what does it actually look like now? Can you supply photos of this trash can find?
Before I recommend anything I would like to know the condition of the receiver first and foremost and what the chamber and bore look like.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 3:35pm
Its been many years since I’ve shot factory ammo, and most of that was Mk 7 Service Ammunition (174 grain flat base bullet, 2440 fps MV).  Some worn barrels just won’t shoot boat tail bullets.  HT is right, try some 150s and 174/180’s and see how they shoot. PPU is supposed to be decent ammo, their cases are certainly good.   Reloading gives you many more options. 

Make sure that rifle is safe to fire first.  As Shamu has explained.  


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Jonnybravo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonnybravo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 4:14pm
Thanks,
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonnybravo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 4:23pm
Thanks,
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonnybravo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 4:25pm
Thanks,
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonnybravo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 4:29pm
the bolt and magazine were missing as this was a trash find. The trash cans did not disclose anything further. ;)
Also, the barrel grooves are very prominent and nice looking. Even though the outside was rusty(but cleaned up after soaking in evaporust) , the barrel has a lubricant running out of the end.
Thanks,
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonnybravo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 4:33pm
the pictures may not show it, but it cleaned up with a nice matte finish. I intend to have it matte blued when I have all the parts together.
Thanks,
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 6:28pm
They were never actually blued in service.
The standard finish was a hard to find paint called 'Suncorite 151? IIRC" over parkerising.
Please tell us you didn't pull the front of the forend down to remove it! That's a bad thing.
They're not really picky, but there is ammo & there is rubbish ammo.
I'd suggest in no  particular order.
Privi Partizan 180 & 150 gr.
HXP greek surplus (if you can find it)
South African A 80 (or 81) RiM3Z
I tend to avoid Indian & Pakistani ammo "POF" headstamps is the kiss of death to me.
Be suspicious of WW2 surplus. Its storage has been poor & it may be click . . .BANG, or worse click . . . . no Bang!
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 6:52pm
Okay, just to verify.  You actually pulled that rifle out of a trash can?
I would highly recommend that you take the barrelled receiver to a machine shop and have it magnafluxed to to check for any cracks and if it passes inspection,take the bolt assembly you buy and the barrelled receiver to a competent gunsmith and have the bolt matched to the rifle. I do not like this whole trash can reference in my honest opinion and I am very hesitant on giving out advise that may lead to a catastrophic failure from a trash can find that you are going to just put a bolt back in it after squirting a bunch of rust remover all over it and basically asking for advice as to which grain of bullet should you buy to possibly tear your face off with when the receiver comes apart.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 7:18pm
My response was only in regards to the OP'ers question on ammunition choice. Of course, the rifle must be thoroughly checked and bolt fitted by a competent gunsmith, preferably familiar with Lee Enfields.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote flatheadsal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Okay, just to verify.  You actually pulled that rifle out of a trash can?
I would highly recommend that you take the barrelled receiver to a machine shop and have it magnafluxed to to check for any cracks and if it passes inspection,take the bolt assembly you buy and the barrelled receiver to a competent gunsmith and have the bolt matched to the rifle. I do not like this whole trash can reference in my honest opinion and I am very hesitant on giving out advise that may lead to a catastrophic failure from a trash can find that you are going to just put a bolt back in it after squirting a bunch of rust remover all over it and basically asking for advice as to which grain of bullet should you buy to possibly tear your face off with when the receiver comes apart.

Goosic, being from NY myself {Long Island NOT NYC} I find alot of people are "afraid" of firearms, therefore they have no idea how to dispose of a gun maybe left by a deceased relative etc. the easy solution would be to remove any moving parts and dispose of the rifle and any parts in seperate garbage cans, just a theory here as I have purchased many rifles after inquiring at garage sales over the years, and on many occasions have heard from the sellers that they didn't know how to sell or dispose of them. Needless to say I was glad to help them out! Just as a side note since emperor Cuomos SAFE act it is no longer legal to sell or buy a firearm between 2 people ( even family members) in NY without going to an FFL dealer and doing a NICS check. This s a big part of why my wife and I are moving to your beautiful state in September this year, I might just have to get in touch when we get settled. flathead
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonnybravo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 7:27pm
ok.....so yes it was out of a trash can. I ended going to the house where I got it and asked if they had the bolt and magazine......then got the back story.  Apparently the girl that lives at the house with her husband got the gun as a hand me down from the grandfather who was in WWII. Sometime during the grandfathers ownership, he removed the mag and bolt and stored it separately from the gun for safety reasons. But when the grandfather died, nobody knew where the missing items went. So it was handed as-is down to the granddaughter, who stored it in the basement (not knowing anything about guns)and there it sat getting rusty. They were actually glad someone was going to rescue it.  

As Paul Harvey Would say “now you know the rest of the story”
Thanks,
Dave
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