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174 gr RN

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303 Hunter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 303 Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 174 gr RN
    Posted: September 29 2020 at 9:42am
Reply sent.
The Lee Enfield is to the Canadian north what the Winchester repeater was to the American west.   Cal Bablitz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2020 at 8:50am
303 Hunter... I sent you a PM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2020 at 3:58pm
Will do! Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 303 Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2020 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by Honkytonk Honkytonk wrote:

I tried sourcing some Woodleigh 215's up here in Canada but could not find any "in stock". Goosic, what diameter are those projectiles? Can anyone share a hunting story using these missiles? Performance, etc? Thanks!

Try Larch Valley Enterprises here in Alberta. Email address is rslepp@shaw.ca. I’m getting some Woodligh 303 bullets from him.
I am also trying out some 220 grain .308 Nosler partitions out of my 303. Will hopefully be able to shoot them before too long.
The Lee Enfield is to the Canadian north what the Winchester repeater was to the American west.   Cal Bablitz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2020 at 1:59pm
I suspect it must be a typo, not likely that 37.0 and 42.0 gr 3031 would generate practically the same pressure but substantially a higher velocity at 42 gr.   Perhaps 45,440 CUP at 42 gr. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2020 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

Goosic, is there a typo in the max pressure, 35,440 CUP?

I’ve got an 1950’s article in the NRA Reloading Handbook with IMR 3031 with several bullets including the Sierra 180 spitzer.  Also IMR 4320 and 4350 loads with Remington 215 gr round nose and Norma 216 gr round nose.  

Here’s a some of the results (velocity 20 feet from muzzle):

180 Sierra Spitzer,  3.075” OAL, 42.0 gr 3031, 2533 fps, 44,220 CUP
215 Rem SP, 3.075” OAL, 49.5 gr 4350, 2432 fps, 44,630 CUP
216 Norma SP, 3.075 OAL, 49.0 gr 4350, 2404 fps, 43,400 CUP

Identical loads were pressure tested with the 216 gr Norma bullet with two different cases which gave quite different pressures.  The Remington cases (load above) gave considerably lower pressures than the Norma cases (which gave 47,610 CUP).  Variations in case thickness and hardness can affect pressures.  

These loads are near at or near maximum (one load listed was over 45,00 CUP). 








It is a possibility britrifles that the test was done using US Military pressure tests or the Piezoelectric test. This is taken from one sheet of paper dated 1955 however and was removed from a textbook from Dupont reloading tables using IMR3031 and a .311 174grn MC/MR, military cartridge/military round. The breech pressure using the minimum 37.0grn shows 35,000 and 35,440 using 42.0grns.  I cannot find any more on the subject and the original owner of the sheet of paper who gave it to my shooting buddy who has given it to me, passed away years ago...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2020 at 11:03am
HT. My dad took the second largest antlered mule deer,Boone and Crocket scored out of Arizona in 1984 with one 215grn bullet out of his PH Custom No4.  He hit it broad side in a full run and it barrel rolled before hitting a Pinon Pine. The bullet is .312 diameter.  IMR4064 37.0grns and Remington 215 primer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2020 at 7:42am
Goosic, is there a typo in the max pressure, 35,440 CUP?

I’ve got an 1950’s article in the NRA Reloading Handbook with IMR 3031 with several bullets including the Sierra 180 spitzer.  Also IMR 4320 and 4350 loads with Remington 215 gr round nose and Norma 216 gr round nose.  

Here’s a some of the results (velocity 20 feet from muzzle):

180 Sierra Spitzer,  3.075” OAL, 42.0 gr 3031, 2533 fps, 44,220 CUP
215 Rem SP, 3.075” OAL, 49.5 gr 4350, 2432 fps, 44,630 CUP
216 Norma SP, 3.075 OAL, 49.0 gr 4350, 2404 fps, 43,400 CUP

Identical loads were pressure tested with the 216 gr Norma bullet with two different cases which gave quite different pressures.  The Remington cases (load above) gave considerably lower pressures than the Norma cases (which gave 47,610 CUP).  Variations in case thickness and hardness can affect pressures.  

These loads are near at or near maximum (one load listed was over 45,00 CUP). 








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2020 at 4:33am
I tried sourcing some Woodleigh 215's up here in Canada but could not find any "in stock". Goosic, what diameter are those projectiles? Can anyone share a hunting story using these missiles? Performance, etc? Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2020 at 9:22pm
 I found an old reloading data sheet for the 303B from Dupont using IMR3031 and a 174grn military bullet.
The rifle used is the No1Mk111. 
The specifics are astounding.  It does not specify a particular primer however.
This is how it is listed:
303 British  Average MV as tested: 2110 minimum,  2411 maximum 
C.U.P. as measured at breech 35,000 minimum,  35,440 maximum 
Powder used IMR3031 37.0gr minimum,  42.0gr maximum 
Bullet used 174grn FMJ MR
Seating depth .425"
Cartridge Overall Length  2.980" + - .002"
This database is dated 1955.
I have loaded twenty five rounds using 40.0grns for testing this next Wednesday when I retest some 215grn Woodleigh bullets. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2020 at 7:56pm
Thanks britrifles! The rifle likes it and our typical range is 125-175 yards. I'm hoping a potent pill!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2020 at 7:42pm
HT, the Hornady 7th Ed manual gives a Muzzle Velocity of 2400 fps with 37.4 gr H4895 with the Hornady 174 gr RN bullet seated to 2.945 in OAL, WIN case and WLR primer. This is from a No. 4 Mk 2 rifle and listed as max load with this powder.  

interpolating the table gives 2380 fps for 37.0 gr. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2020 at 2:27pm
As always, thanks for the information!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2020 at 1:51pm
For velocity estimation, go with the Hodgdon data as it is specifically for their bullet.  I believe they used a No. 4 Mk 2 rifle for this data, but I can’t confirm that, reloading manual is at home.  

They may also be listing velocities for both BTHP and RN 174 gr bullets (Sierra will typically do this) but as Shamu said, there will be some difference in MV at the same charge weight.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2020 at 1:25pm
Probably. There might be a very slight pressure increase because of the longer bearing surface but its tiny.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2020 at 11:13am
According to all information available, your 37.0grs of H4895 is a safe load with a C.U.P. under 43,600 as well. You should average 2346 - 2395 fps.
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