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How Equipment Accuracy Affects the Bottom Line

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    Posted: March 21 2021 at 6:13pm
depending on how we all look at "the bottom line" i think you have made great points on using the very best bits we can find to get the very best results , it also sometimes equates to cost and often that becomes a restriction depending on where in life we are and what we have available , but in the end this has been a helpful thread for those looking to improve their results , ive read it more than once just to be sire i didnt miss an important bit , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 9:08am
The program I was in had the two man element. Never any rapid fire stages however. There was more to the program than just shooting. We had to perform various tasks along the way to the next stage. The A.C.T. and CM portion of the program while simultaneously doing C.B.I. was possibly the hardest part of the program with a 70% failure rate...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lyman1903 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 7:35am
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

I was one of the first round inductees into the course I mentioned when it was initiated in mid 1987 at Ft.Benning...

The closest you will find at a NM course is what is called Rattle Battle, 

still know distance,  and a team event, 
the outside guys are swing shooters, 

and all rapid fire, (timed)



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 7:34am
Absolutely.  Everything must be “right” with the rifle to achieve its inherent accuracy.  

My Long Branch No. 4 Mk 1/3 I use for the matches has maintained its accuracy well for about 5000 rounds that I have put thru it.  I wished I had kept a round count log.  I am expecting that barrel throat wear will soon show itself on the target and it will need to be rebarreled.  I’m going to call Krieger and see if they will make me a No. 4 barrel.  

For me, I’ve found that dry firing every day for the week before the match is important. Particularly in the standing position.  Dry firing in the prep stage of the match (I think it’s 3 minutes of prep time we get before firing) helps you identify if you are in proper position and watch for any movement of the front sight when the striker is released. 

But I think what made the most difference for me was I spent a concentrated effort over a period of 5 years to work at practicing the three stages of the CMP GSM match exactly as they are run, except I dispensed with the 5 sighters in prone slow fire.  I used a timer to make sure I got my 10 rounds in rapid fire stage completed with 15 seconds to spare.   I tried to get to the range once a week over this period, but that was not always possible. I shot a lot of rounds thru my M1 and No. 4 over these 5 years, shot two barrels out of my M1.  I tried to spread out my shooting across several No. 4 rifles and keep loads down to moderate pressures to minimize bore wear.  

In all that shooting I’ve not detected any increase in headspace.  I keep the bolt and action body locking lugs cleaned and use a bit of grease on these surfaces. 





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 12:58am
I think practice is essential to good performance in any sport. The problem for most of us at the moment is getting to the range. 
Probably won't get any competitions this year; unless the vaccination program gets speeded up here.
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 9:44pm
Back to the original topic.
I have a M700P that I keep and maintain to the highest of standards and it is my go to target rifle.  It is good for nothing else other than a target rifle.
I also have a great all weather Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle that is my go to hunting rig. Both rifles are as accurate as can be expected directly from the factories they were manufactured at and can without fail,  deliver repeatedly MOA groups when the end user does his part. 
My Savage No4 that is currently in the guise of the L8A5T was purpose built the fill the gap between both rifles mentioned above.
It will never be a target rifle but, it can and does come close. It will never be used as a hunting rifle unless absolutely necessary.  So what is its intended purpose then? To make me work that much harder at maintaining my level of accuracy.  Every time I am at the range with it, I learn something new about its effectiveness between 100 and 200 yards and what I can do as the operator to improve upon that effectiveness. The accuracy of the weapons system is only as good as it will be when kept it top condition.  That goes for the person operating the weapons system as well...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 5:46pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

I used to shoot "full-bore" under the old I.S.U. rules.
Then the I.O.C. Took over & things like the exact color of the sling became an issue.
That was when I left because it was just politics.
I liked Shooting Match when it was just (kind of) mano a mano.
After the change I lost interest because when you aggregated & averaged your score was always the same.
Why bother anymore just give me my average. (aggregated over 3 years.)?

Sham, the CMP matches are not nearly that stringent. And each match is its own event.  I really encourage it, members who live in the US and are interested in improving their shooting skill should look up CMP GSM Matches in their area.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Where can you find the online video?

Here is the link.  


Have to know when there is a match being run.  I think tomorrow is the last day. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 2:19pm
I used to shoot "full-bore" under the old I.S.U. rules.
Then the I.O.C. Took over & things like the exact color of the sling became an issue.
That was when I left because it was just politics.
I liked Shooting Match when it was just (kind of) mano a mano.
After the change I lost interest because when you aggregated & averaged your score was always the same.
Why bother anymore just give me my average. (aggregated over 3 years.)?
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 1:24pm
Where can you find the online video?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 1:02pm
Here’s how cool those electronic targets at the TMP are.  You can go online and watch the match, it will display all the targets and the hits as they happen in real time.  I watched the second day of the GSM match this afternoon from my back porch at my cabin (GSM - Garand, Springfield and Vintage Military Rifle Match).  

Despite my blunder yesterday with the No. 4, I managed to hold on to my first place in the Vintage Military Match.  Almost got bumped off 2nd place on in the M1 match, but I had a healthy X count.  2nd place doesn’t count for anything, but at least I know the M1 is finally shooting well.  





Obviously, I’ve become a match junkie, you have to be to sit there watching 20 targets on a screen and watch the bullet impacts appear (Virtually that is).  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 11:21am
Some shooters find the Match Rules very annoying, and some of them do seem rather pointless.  But, they are intended to ensure no one has a technical advantage in equipment (although that’s not really possible as some rifles do shoot better than others).  The rules control the configuration of the rifle so people don’t start modifying them into match rifles.  They used to issue ammunition at the National Matches for years and stopped when the .30-06 M72 Ball was used up.  

The idea is to make it based on skill of shooting in the 4 basic positions.  It’s by no means “advanced” shooting skills such as what you described.  But, believe me, it is very competitive and we strive for that perfect score that has never (to my knowledge) been attained.   Perfect meaning a score of 800-80x across the National Course of fire.  All 80 shots in the X ring.  To do that, you would have to hold 1.5 MOA in standing and sitting rapid fire and 1 MOA in prone rapid fire at 300 yards and 1 MOA prone slow fire at 600 yards, with a Service Rifle.  It would take superhuman skill with some serious luck to pull that off. 






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 10:46am
I was one of the first round inductees into the course I mentioned when it was initiated in mid 1987 at Ft.Benning...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 10:34am
I’ve shot in IDPA pistol matches with moving targets and also shot out of moving vehicles.  Definitely a challenge. 

The CMP (and DCM before that) and NRA military type matches have not really changed much since they began in the 1870’s.  They were intended to encourage marksmanship in the civil population and culminated in a yearly National Match in Creedmoor (later at Camp Perry) with the National Service Rifle.  The targets and rifles have changed, but the the 200/300/600 Yard National course has been around for a long time. 






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 8:45am
Originally posted by lyman1903 lyman1903 wrote:

CMP/NRA service rifle matches are all fixed  or known distance, , stationary targets, 

no running bunnies
What a shame then. The CMP/NRA service rifle matches would certainly benefit from offering the program i mentioned...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lyman1903 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 8:39am
CMP/NRA service rifle matches are all fixed  or known distance, , stationary targets, 

no running bunnies
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