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All Loaded up for the Matches

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Goosic View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 17 2021 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by lyman1903 lyman1903 wrote:

Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

We have a 1000 yard range here and that is where I watched a two man operation punching in computer codes into a laptop and watching all the gizmos whirring away until the contraption that houses the barrel and breaching mechanism stopped. The sighting in was done via two camera links setup between the contraption and the target and one camera on a drone. The one computer tech tapped the Enter button on the laptop, the contraption made a loud crack sound and a couple of seconds later after reading the telemetry off of the laptop, the two man operation high five each other and then started the process over again. That is not shooting when the actual shooter is removed from the equation.
What britrifles is doing in service rifle competition and what F-Class guys are doing is what shooting is all about. When you become one with the rifle, and if that includes trying to tweak that little fraction of accuracy out of that rifle by making that miniscule powder charge weight adjustment then so be it. 
The BR dudes do not have the handicap of actually having to hold an actual rifle and get into the various positions prior to shooting...


you witnessed Skynet's great great grandpa,,,,,Clown
Skynet became self aware 24 years ago at 2:14 am Eastern Standard time on August 29th 1997...Hug...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lyman1903 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2021 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:

i rather like your AR and i realize this is not the forum for it but if you wish to tell us more of it on the CT im interested , ive not shot any of these matches but might one day if opportunity presents itself , im still getting used to retirement these days , 

be careful, Service Rifle can be addicting, 


I shoot it regularly for about 10 yrs until a job change took away my Sat's off, 



I bought an estate a few years ago that had some custom bench rest and varmint guns in it, 

they sold well, but the questions about them (round count, headspace,  who made it,  round count, previous history , any matches won etcetcetc,) were relentless, 

all sold relatively quickly,   

we also picked up another a few weeks ago,  
monstrosity built on a M1917 action,  big heavy barrel, 
really large laminate stock with built in rails on the bottom to ride the bags or bench, 
may take forever to sell, but not worried, the Unertl that was one it is worth way more than we paid for the complete set,,



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lyman1903 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2021 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

We have a 1000 yard range here and that is where I watched a two man operation punching in computer codes into a laptop and watching all the gizmos whirring away until the contraption that houses the barrel and breaching mechanism stopped. The sighting in was done via two camera links setup between the contraption and the target and one camera on a drone. The one computer tech tapped the Enter button on the laptop, the contraption made a loud crack sound and a couple of seconds later after reading the telemetry off of the laptop, the two man operation high five each other and then started the process over again. That is not shooting when the actual shooter is removed from the equation.
What britrifles is doing in service rifle competition and what F-Class guys are doing is what shooting is all about. When you become one with the rifle, and if that includes trying to tweak that little fraction of accuracy out of that rifle by making that miniscule powder charge weight adjustment then so be it. 
The BR dudes do not have the handicap of actually having to hold an actual rifle and get into the various positions prior to shooting...


you witnessed Skynet's great great grandpa,,,,,Clown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 7:01pm
i rather like your AR and i realize this is not the forum for it but if you wish to tell us more of it on the CT im interested , ive not shot any of these matches but might one day if opportunity presents itself , im still getting used to retirement these days , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 1:17pm
Shooting rifles off the bench with support (sandbag or tripod rest) has a similar purpose.  To minimize or eliminate the shooter from the accuracy equation.  

It’s easy to see how this endeavor lead to heavier barrels and more powerful scopes.  Over the years, it has resulted in these monstrosities that are called “Benchrest” rifles.  They do have a barrel, receiver and a bolt.  But that’s the extent of it.  In a few years, they will need a fork lift to bring these rifles to the bench.

Service Rifle shooters pretty much ignore the wind effects out to 200 yards. Many of our vintage military rifles don’t even have a means to adjust the rear sight for windage...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 1:03pm
Its not really about shooting, thats the point.
Its more about the mechanics & engineering.

They will literally argue about what kind of giant plastic flower whirligig main spindle bearing, to use as a wind indicator every 10 yards to the target.
Are pneumatic releases, solenoid releases, or cable releases the best for trigger tripping.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 11:58am
At my local club there are quite a few 50 metre Benchrest shooter's, using .22 benchrest rifles. They seem to be taking over! As many of them are in the club commitee. 
They spend so much time putting up windmills and wind vanes, setting up the rigs and buying a job lot of 5000 rounds to get the same batch! I just don't get it. 
But sometimes we can have some fun!
Last year they had a competition for benchrest and had a class for leisure rfiles. So a rifle weight limit, max X24 scope and either a bipod or front sandbag for a rest. 
So I entered with the No8 Enfield with the Schmitt Bender x6 scope, just for a laugh. I got third on the day, behind two regular's using modern CZ heavy barrel rifles and big scopes (from another club).
But I was top score of our 11 club members who entered.
Before the competition, some of them were surprised that I had turned up with a 70 year old rifle and a scope I fitted 2 weeks before. They didn't have much to say afterwards! I was happy!

But one thing did bug me, we shot three cards, but they only scored the first two. But my last card was my best and would have put me second if we'd scored all three!
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 9:59am
No doubt, Benchrest has changed a lot since it’s early days when it was just a scoped rifle shot off a bench with a rest...

One of my Dad’s books I have is “The Ultimate in Rifle Precision” by the late Colonel Townsend Whelen.  It chronicles the beginnings of this type of shooting.  It was traced back to 1944 where a group of shooters in the Puget Sound area got together to shoot their hunting rifles off a bench with support under the rifle.  That was the first know Match when a rest was permitted.  It was intended to find out just how accurate rifles and ammunition are....

Not for me.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 8:10am
We have a 1000 yard range here and that is where I watched a two man operation punching in computer codes into a laptop and watching all the gizmos whirring away until the contraption that houses the barrel and breaching mechanism stopped. The sighting in was done via two camera links setup between the contraption and the target and one camera on a drone. The one computer tech tapped the Enter button on the laptop, the contraption made a loud crack sound and a couple of seconds later after reading the telemetry off of the laptop, the two man operation high five each other and then started the process over again. That is not shooting when the actual shooter is removed from the equation.
What britrifles is doing in service rifle competition and what F-Class guys are doing is what shooting is all about. When you become one with the rifle, and if that includes trying to tweak that little fraction of accuracy out of that rifle by making that miniscule powder charge weight adjustment then so be it. 
The BR dudes do not have the handicap of actually having to hold an actual rifle and get into the various positions prior to shooting...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 7:44am
another, more extreme version.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/rail-gun.jpg
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 7:36am
Benchrest is a test of the equipment & load only.
They actually try to remove the shooter from the equation!
There are "sled guns" which are more like field artillery than any recognizable rifle as we use the term.
they don't even pull the trigger, but use a remote release of some kind!
The thing with bench-rest is that they'll fire 45 rounds, but only the ten on the "for Score" target count, the other 35 are all sighters.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads24/rail+guns1452135998.jpg
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lyman1903 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 7:30am
Originally posted by SGonger SGonger wrote:

Originally posted by lyman1903 lyman1903 wrote:

Goosic,  

your comments are ones I have heard before, and just a thought, 

the Benchrest guys probably have similar comments about Service Rifle shooters, or Smallbore, or Bullseye,, 


and reminds me of the old joke, 

3 shooters are walking down the line at Camp Perry, 

a Bullseye shooter
a Smallbore shooter 
and a Service Rifle shooter, 

they are chatting about various things and in  come up on a mud hole ,  
the Bullseye shooter steps over and continues  to  his station 
the Smallbore shooter gets mad, and storms off to the R/O to complain about conditions of the match, 
and the SR shooter gets down and into position,,,
Could add the long range lead thrower mobile equine (coyote & feral critter) shooter into that mix too......yes!?  TongueWink


or maybe a reenactor?  Light Horse type?Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SGonger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 6:33am
Originally posted by lyman1903 lyman1903 wrote:

Goosic,  

your comments are ones I have heard before, and just a thought, 

the Benchrest guys probably have similar comments about Service Rifle shooters, or Smallbore, or Bullseye,, 


and reminds me of the old joke, 

3 shooters are walking down the line at Camp Perry, 

a Bullseye shooter
a Smallbore shooter 
and a Service Rifle shooter, 

they are chatting about various things and in  come up on a mud hole ,  
the Bullseye shooter steps over and continues  to  his station 
the Smallbore shooter gets mad, and storms off to the R/O to complain about conditions of the match, 
and the SR shooter gets down and into position,,,
Could add the long range lead thrower mobile equine (coyote & feral critter) shootem’up into that mix too......yes!?  TongueWink
Anyone seen the Tardis Box anywhere? 🤨
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 6:23am
I was reading some information the other day on a F-Class forum, and had to laugh, they call the Service Rifle shooters “Sling Shooters”, not heard that one before, but perhaps appropriate.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lyman1903 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 5:47am
Goosic,  

your comments are ones I have heard before, and just a thought, 

the Benchrest guys probably have similar comments about Service Rifle shooters, or Smallbore, or Bullseye,, 


and reminds me of the old joke, 

3 shooters are walking down the line at Camp Perry, 

a Bullseye shooter
a Smallbore shooter 
and a Service Rifle shooter, 

they are chatting about various things and in  come up on a mud hole ,  
the Bullseye shooter steps over and continues  to  his station 
the Smallbore shooter gets mad, and storms off to the R/O to complain about conditions of the match, 
and the SR shooter gets down and into position,,,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 3:23am
Yes, that’s why I don’t have an interest in Benchrest shooting.  It’s a test of the rifle and ammo and not the skill of the shooter. Although Benchrest shooter might disagree with this, I don’t know.  Benchrest is the ultimate arbitrator of how consistent the ammo is, for the rifle is essentially a rigid structure and it sits on rest which prevents any movement imparted my the shooter. 

If weighing charges was necessary to obtain accuracy, it would be here in Benchrest shooting.  They must be using very high quality measures that give them the consistency they need.  Although I have personally seen benchrest shooters charge cases direct from the measure, I thought that was odd at the time, because I was weighing and trickle charging all my rifle loads for my No. 4. That was 20 years ago.

I have a friend that shoots in F-Class, which is shot in prone position with a front tripod rest and rear sandbag rest. Rifles have heavy barrels and high power scopes.  I was talking to him the other day and he realized that Service Rifle shooting is much more a test of shooting skill than F-Class and has the added dimensions of shooting in three positions:  standing, sitting and prone.  Then there are rapid fire and slow fire stages.  It is meant to be representative of the infantry rifleman’s methods.  

The toughest thing about shooting long range is learning to compensate for shifting winds.  I’ve yet to learn this skill.  I was shooting the AR at 600 yards last Friday, and had three minutes of right windage dialed in to account for the 4 to 5 mph cross wind right to left across the range.  I hadn’t noticed the wind shift after the third shot and a 3:00 shot in the 7 ring was the result.  So, I removed the 3 minute Right windage on the scope and a 9:00 shot in the 7 ring was the result!  That 4 mph breeze had picked up again and I could not detect it by watching the flags.  I dialed the 3 minutes Right windage back in and a 3:00 shot in the 8 ring was the result.  I had just lost 8 points because I did not know how to read a 4 mph shifting breeze.  Out came my spotting scope to watch the mirage at 300 yards (midway down the range).  I watched until I saw the same conditions on each shot and four consecutive shots in the X ring resulted.  

None of this had anything to do with my rifle or my loads, or my ability to hold the rifle and align the sights and smoothly pull the trigger.  It was my inability to read the wind and make corrections.  This is just one of the challenges we face in mid range and long range shooting. I can’t imagine how those snipers take mile and a half shots, but that’s one of the jobs of the spotter, making windage allowances and watch where the bullet impacts.  





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