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WCC 81 headstamp

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John Coleman View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 30 2008 at 11:25pm
Not exactly realoading, but ammunition related.

Does anybody know the true history of this ammo? I was told it was made by Winchester for the US military for "training". I have had different lot numbers but it has all been marked "WCC 81" (1981). It is some of the very best quality 303 ammo I've used.

I know that the US military does have ammo made in the US for foreign weapons for training, but 303 in 1981 seems a bit odd. I have seen ammo with fake headstamps and with no headstamp at all. I wonder if this ammo was made in another country for some war in some remote place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2008 at 12:24am

WCC
Western Cartridge Co., East Alton, Ill., USA. Known to have produced nitro-cellulose loaded .303 cartridges in... B, Mk 7Z (WW2 Contract Pattern).

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John Coleman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Coleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2008 at 12:38am
I do have some WWII Winchester 303 ammunition headstamped "WRA". Some is marked only for use in machine guns and some is marked for use in aircraft machine guns. It seems a bit milder than the "WCC 81" ammo. 1981 just seems like an odd year for the US military to have 303 ammunition made for weapons training.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2008 at 11:52am
Interesting. Winchester purchased Western Cartridge way back
( Winchester-Western) but they seemed to continue using the WCC on military ammo. I have seen 9mm marked WCC 97 .
If I were suspicious, I'd guess the 81 ammo was not for training, but was a contract for a small government agency that was distributing the ammo to people in various corners of the world. I have no documentation, but heard a lot of the Canadian surplus ammo was purchased by U.S. government sources.
Ed 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Coleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2008 at 2:34pm
I know about and understand the change in headstamp on Winchester military ammo from WRA to WCC which is correct for the year 1981 but I am curious if this ammo is genuine Winchester made or if it might be a fake Winchester headstamp from another country. I have seen Yugoslavian 7.62x51 ammo with  fake "FN" headstamps. The Yugoslavian ammo company did this at the request of the purchaser who in turn sold the ammo as "FN" made ammo. The ammo wasn't bad ammo but it wasn't made by FN. The arms dealer requested the fake headstamp, it wasn't the Yugoslavian ammo company trying to fake the FN headstamp but they knew it was a fake headstamp along with the NATO cross.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2008 at 7:43am
I wonder if this ammo was manufactured for the Canadian rangers who are still issued with #4 Enfields for Arctic conditions? Though I get the sneaking Suspicion as John points out about some countries being a little dishonest about their ammo manufacture !!!!!!!

     Dave     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2008 at 1:07am
You may be onto something there Davie!As you say they ARE still being issued as we speak..but the ammo(& they'd use a fair bit of 'er) has to come from SOMEWHERE!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NervousBreakdwn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2009 at 7:12pm
I bought some of this ammo...  It's good stuff...
 
I too wondered about the reason for the military contract...
 
After thinking about the year it was made and what was happening in the world at that time,,,  along with WHO was using Enfields,,,  I came to one and only one conclusion:
 
This ammo was made for the rebels in Afghanistan fighting the Russians...
 
There's a lot of 303 rifles floating around in that part of the world...
 
WCC also made the now infamous 6.5 for the exiles to use during the failed Bay of Pigs invasion....  It was later "surplused"...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2009 at 10:04pm
Dont be entirley sure its for Afghanistan.I'd be thinkin more along the lines of Canada's Northern Rangers & Artic training for DND reg's & Reserves.
They still use ALOT of it.The Innuit use they're gov't issued Enfields for hunting as well.
I still have a paper here featuring just that (from Oct'08)I'll send it to if you'd like
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airforcediver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2009 at 2:08pm
I posted a link with regards to the rangers and the upcoming plans with their service rifles, in the LINKS threads, from that link you can find out more info on the Rangers, which are located all across the country (not just north of the tree line)  We have approx a company's worth on VI
 
     AFD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NervousBreakdwn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2009 at 3:55pm
It's just weird seeing a US military contract from that time period...
 
I haven't seen any US contracted .303 since WWII,, except for the WCC-81 stuff...
 
There is plenty of US manufactured commercial stuff around,,,  though...
 
I'm sure that Canada has plenty of plants set up to manufacture the stuff...
 
On another note,,,  has anybody come across any of the German "MEN-83" stamped .303...  It is some of the best ammo that I have aver shot in that caliber...  I'd call it match ammo without thinking twice...  Also,, it's Berdan primed...
 
On another "funky .303" note,,,  has anybody had any experience with the Iraqi .303 from the '50s...???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2009 at 9:24pm
WCC-81 were manufactured by the     Western Cartridge Company (Olin), East Alton, IL in 1981   Olin is a Winchester Company
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Coleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 4:00am
Yep I knew what the headstamp was suppose to mean. Somebody else found some 303 with WCC-80 headstamp. So it looks like at least 2 batches. Was it to supply Afghans? Was it for US military foreign weapons training? The ammo cans and cases "look" American. That doesn't mean it wasn't made by another company in another country using Winchester markings. It does seem high quality ammo and brass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 4:12am
yep for Mil surp ammo Winchester would be one of the better spent cases
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NervousBreakdwn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2009 at 6:04pm
I bought my WC-81 from a friend that has a surplus store...  He said that it came in a US .50 cal ammo can that was gov't stenciled with ".303" and all that jazz...
 
I made him look everywhere for that can,,,  but he figures that it was accidentally sold in the mix of ammo cans that he sells regularly...
 
I wanted that damn can pretty badly... 
 
It would compliment the one that I have stenciled "No. 00 Buckshot"...  What's a Geneva Convention...???  hahaha...
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