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My first No. 4 Mk 1/2 What is it?

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    Posted: December 30 2013 at 1:42pm
OK , now you have altered it so , now the next owner has a whole new dilemma , not sayin its bad ...just sayin , it is what all of us deal with every day , my personal experience aside , you now have altered it again , if you intend to keep it ...i understand , if your looking to sell it - reveal it , 

these days i do not buy without asking , but im not altogether sure the sellers fully reveal , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KC9AOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2013 at 6:54am
Well my order from Numrich will set things straight!  Ordered the cocking piece and the screw.  Have their firing pin tool already and it works great so far.

Thanks to everyone for their input.  I'm going to go over the barrel and action with a fine toothed comb to make sure there are no other DP marks on it.  I did scour it once but I'll do it again to be sure.

Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2013 at 5:14am
dittos what bear said , the parts are interchangeable within tolerances but many after users switched bits to fit their fancy [make them more correct] and make them more sale-able , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2013 at 5:00am
I also wanted to point out that the cocking piece could have been put on there at any time after that rifle was sold out of service too. Many people have replaced pieces post service not knowing that a DP mark was not a good thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2013 at 4:52am
It might have been TFRd at one point in its life then DP'd later. You have to remember that this was about the time when the Lee Enfields were "going away" to make room for the (then new) "Ess Ell Arr" that was being phased into service.

Part of it was the politics of the era. There's been more than one rumor that the only reason Faz stayed open was because they were doing FTR's & builds for overseas contract Lee Enfields because they didn't want the unemployment numbers to shoot up as would have happened if the factory was closed. AFAIK Faz never ever made L1A1's even though they couldn't crank em out fast enough.

I'd bet that if the timing had been different quite a lot of Enfields wouldn't have been DP'd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KC9AOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2013 at 4:32am
Thanks for that info.  I'm still confused how a FTR rifle ended up with a bolt that has a DP mark on it anywhere.  I guess the bolt could have been mucked with but the fit and finish are consistent with the rest of the rifle.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2013 at 3:26am
They marked individual parts, so if your bolt body was DP'd it would have been marked as such.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KC9AOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2013 at 1:49am
The cocking piece is the only thing marked DP on the bolt. Could the whole bolt be DP if just the cocking piece is marked?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2013 at 1:16am
Correct!
The Mk1 had the trigger attached to the actual guard. The change with the Mk2 was to braze a "hanger", (read piece of steel) to the front of the receiver ring & attach the trigger to that. There was no attachment for the trigger on the trigger guard of Mk2's.

This is the "hanger" & trigger of a Mk2.


The forend of the Mk2 has a cut for the "hanger" & a cross bolt fastening it to the "hanger" by screw tension/friction. Unlike the Mk1's metal riveted in strap.

Supposedly the change made an improvement to the consistency of trigger pull as the forend wood swelling & shrinking by moisture absorption effecting trigger feel was removed. Having had both I really can't tell the difference, but my wood is probably pampered compared to trench warfare life!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon287 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2013 at 12:35am
Originally posted by paddyofurniture paddyofurniture wrote:

In my "stores box" I still have a few trigger guards left I think with the trigger still mounted.

What was a better trigger the original or the changed / up grade?
I think the forearm stock is different between the No4 Mk1 and the No4 Mk2, as well as the way the trigger is mounted. They can't be swapped back and forth that easily.
Please be aware that I don't own a No.4 Mk2, it is just what I have gathered from reading. If I am wrong , someone correct me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2013 at 12:12am
i did not think to check the serial number but ... the 10900 [if im reading it right] is the range assigned to maltby , assuming it was not changed , which is unlikely save the "A" sufix being added , 
they used the prefix A-Z and AA - BZ , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2013 at 10:41pm
In my "stores box" I still have a few trigger guards left I think with the trigger still mounted.

What was a better trigger the original or the changed / up grade?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2013 at 10:39pm
You did the right thing to replace the cocking piece. When a part is marked DP you have no idea why it was marked such and parts that are pressure bearing or make it go boom cannot be trusted. Bands and wood are fine to use, but I too would replace that cocking piece with a good one. And no, no armourer would have replaced a defective part with a DP part. Once a part was DP'd it was essentially a death sentence for said part as far as the military was concerned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lithgow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2013 at 8:30pm
Does the bolt and action serial numbers match? Make sure it's not a DP bolt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2013 at 12:33pm
It may not have been a armorer or atleast a British Military armorer. Someone somewhere in the rifle's history may have swapped out the original which may have had some surface defects with one from a DP rifle or a pile of parts that looked better.  I used a "DP" marked band on a sporterised  rifle I restored a few years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KC9AOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2013 at 9:47am
I just discovered that the cocking piece is stamped "DP".  That's the only DP I can find on entire gun.  I've ordered a replacement piece but is it really necessary?  I know the DP is not necessarily a sign of a defective part (I know DP = Drill Purposes not defective part) but I want to be careful.  This is a full FTR so I'm a bit confused  Would an armorer use a DP part in an FTR? 
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