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7.7 jap

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White Rhino View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 02 2014 at 3:07am
Any one have some reloading recipes for the 7.7 jap ??  Both my reloading books have no listing....  and what I do find is small and no powders that I have on hand.....
 Im looking for cast lead with gas check at 190 grn projectiles.

"White Rhino"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon287 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2014 at 3:37am
My SIERRA Rifle reloading manual 3rd edition has a listing for 7.7x58mm Japanese using 150 gr. and 180 gr. Spitzer bullets. Will that help?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2014 at 3:38am
7.7?? Rhino, I thot the ARISAKA was 6.5 x 55 (Swede)? No?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2014 at 3:38am
I don't have anything for 190 GR but I do have some data for either 180 or 210 gr loads from an old Lyman manual.
180 gr:
mold # 311407

26.0/ 4198 for1850 FPS
27.0/3031 for 1830 FPS
29.0/4064 for 1800 FPS
30.0/4895 for 1790 FPS.

210 Gr
Mold # 311284

40.0/4895 for 2100 FPS
40.0/3031 for 2100 FPS
42.0/4064 for 2050 FPS
42.0/4320 for 2050 FPS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2014 at 11:44am
Hoadie, they made both, 6.5 and 7.7 , the 7.7 came after the 6.5  if you compare the 2 rifles you can see they just went with the Mdl 38 and developed the 7.7 Mdl 99 .

Jon287 and Shamu What Im looking for right now is Cast Bullets of 190 Grn recipes, I cant find anything for cast of that size . But I will keep those recapies that y'all posted at hand if I come up with jacketed projectiles ,.........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2014 at 8:48pm
Rhino those are cast bullet recipes. Thats why I posted the mold numbers so you could look em up & interpret the data for the weight you want. I'm guessing gas checked for those speeds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2014 at 12:31am
Sorry about that Shamu, I did not even see Mold Mdl.# on top !!! Sorry about that !!! I was so excited to see some loads I went straight to them ...LOL!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2014 at 12:39am
No problem. I hope you can put them to use in some way.Beer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 303Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 6:32am
I know the Japs had a 7.7 semi-rimmed and a rimless (based on the 8x57).  They also had the 7.7 rimmed (a 303 Brit copy) for there Vickers (and other) type machine guns.  I'm not clear where they used the semi-rimmed cartridge?

I had read that the Japs went for the 7.7 after being at the wrong end of 303 fire.  Now I read it was because they found the 8x57 used by the Chinese superior to their 6.5.  They used the 303 Mk VII as a basis for their 7.7 bullet.

I also read that the Japanese soldiers didn't like the 7.7 because it was heavier and recoiled too much for their smaller frames.  Is that someone simply guessing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 8:20am
303Guy, I have seen on one forume , some one saying to use 303 loads and go from there !!  I dont really want to do that since I only have 2 of the Type 99 rifles !! one that is a last ditch.
I would rather have actual recipes for the round !!

Also read that some were using 30-06 cases , dont want to do that either !!!
I have brass for each of my rifles , except for the mauser 71/84 that I got off the movie set "The Last Samurai"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 303Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 5:17pm
Although the 303 case is smaller, the starting load for H4350 and 180 gr bullets is the same at 44 gr and the max is 48 gr for the 303 and 47 gr for the 7.7  Pressure and velocity is lower for the 7.7 though.  For H4895 the starting and max loads are higher for the 7.7 although velocity is about the same.  But when it comes to faster powders the difference in capacity between the two become less significant.  I'd look across at 8x57 cast bullet data to get an idea.  A very usable powder would be H4227 or H4198 although I wouldn't use them without a Dacron powder positioner (not a wad).  I've fired 194gr cast (but also paper patched) with 44 gr of H4350 in one of my 303's and got 2000 fps out of a 15½ inch barrel.  I've used quite a bit less with better accuracy so H4350 is reasonably versatile although it's quite slow and apparently is not one of those powders prone to SEE.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2014 at 8:29am
I have IMR 4227 , and Son in Law was just asking me if H4227 and IMR were the same ??  I sent him on a reading quest !!!! LOL!!
I kind of like my IMR 4227 since I load a lot of different rounds with it !!!
As for the other powders you listed , I would need to get back out to the shop and see what others I have that you listed .... I leave for work this Wednesday, so unless I get time before then...and to top things off , I cant get WiFi out in my shop anymore!! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 303Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2014 at 10:19am
I believe IMR4227 and H4227 are the same now that Hodgdon has taken over IMR but not so much before so it would depend on the age of the powder.  I'm not sure the difference was significant as a rifle powder used for cast - maybe for smaller capacity cases.  H4350 and IMR4350 is another powder that is now the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2014 at 11:21am
Well My cans are less than a year old, We were at Cabellas some time before Thanksgiving 2013 and they had just put out a bunch of powder, IMR 4227 was one of them ....So I got 3 cans !! 
As I replace powder now ,Im going to the kegs of what I use most...  Soon as I find what My Buddy Des is looking for , all My powder purchases will be 5 Lbs or larger !!!!
I missed out on some W-296 last month ....  and now that I have found away to keep using my .410 she!!s after I cant crimp them, I now wish I had not....  I have been loading the she!!s that cant be loaded with shot any more ,I have been shooting .358 projectiles in them.... I got me a roll crimper for the .410 .... I love it and its easy to use !!
I got one for the 20 gauge to , have not played with it yet !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 303Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2014 at 5:23pm
I have a few really old roll crimpers, one of which I used to use for 12ga.  I think two are for 410.  I got these in my twenties and they were old then, probably collectible.  One day when I get hold of a 410 shotgun I plan to make cases from 303 cases.  But that's a future project.

Anyway, I'm not sure which of H4227 and H4198 is better.  4227 has worked well for me and for a somewhat slower powder I have some W748 which is similar to BL-(C)2 in burn rate.  Then I have H4350 for higher velocity and some W780 for higher velocity with a slower pressure rise and lower peak pressure.  So far it's all theory (except the H4227 - that works pretty well with heavy bullets up to about 1900 fps).  I'm trying plain based cast and the H4350 peens the bullet base some while the W748 does not and that's why I have those two spherical powders.

Oh, you can cross reference 8x57 load data for cast.  Max load might be a little lower due to the slightly smaller bullet base area.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2014 at 1:32am
The .303 case is a little sloppy for American 410 chambers , I ended up buying a box of Magteck brass.
There are other rifle brass that with a little filing down of the rim works great for making 410 she!!s .
I do make British 410 for my Enfield 410 out of 303 she!!s !!  got a recipe that has been working OK for me. I took it squirrel hunting this season and did OK.....
"White Rhino"

"Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields
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