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WW2 No4 Mk1 with disc & 3 swivels?

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Shamu View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 16 2015 at 2:05pm
I was always under the impression that unit I.D. stock discs were strictly a No1 thing, being discontinued before the No4 came on line.

I was also under the impression that no piling/stacking or sling swivels were ever fitted to the upper band on No4 rifles.

Then I found this picture in an old book on the Lee Enfields.Shocked
It seems to have both a stock disc & some kind of swivel at the upper band!
(apologies for the poor image quality.)

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote terrylee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2015 at 6:35pm
Perhaps it is a No.1 Mk.VI with a later forend? Although indistinct it also appears to have the same foresight guard.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2015 at 1:48pm
Its hard to tell.
The guy writing the book was supposed to be an expert in the field, so I assume he wouldn't mis-identify. It does look a bit like the original cocking piece though.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote terrylee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2015 at 4:07pm
Has a magazine cut-off. Could also be one of the No.4 Trials Rifles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2015 at 6:34pm
I agree it is either a No 1 Mk VI or a trials rifle. If the author of the book was working with some stock photos it would be quite easy to misidentify if not paying very close attention. I wonder if that isn't what happened in this case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2015 at 9:09pm
were not the very early no4 mkIs issued with these features ? just after the trials ? most would have been very early rifles and transitional , but i seem to recall this to be the case , with everything these went thru - id not expect to find an original correct - only one that was refitted to that spec , 

ill have to gig out my LOC references to verify what ive said , i could be wrong , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2015 at 9:29pm
I just looked it up and it is indicative of very early No 4 production with the exception of the stacking swivel, which I could not find a reference to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2015 at 9:37pm
somewhere over the years i was told on a site that no longer exists that the stacking swivel was an early item that quickly became non-existant , i no longer have any of my old links or saved posts - probably would not help as ians site has been gone so long , even my 'printed materials' are long filed and i have no idea where to look right now , my files were moved and ive been lazy over the years putting them in order , 

this would be a fun one to research to be certain , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2015 at 8:03am
I did a pit of poking about as well. I can find no record of a "trials rifle" having the No4 muzzle configuration. Everything I've found has indicated a No1 style end with the big cast nosecap. Were any trials rifles "changed" to a No4? Can you even do it? Will a No1 barrel's muzzle fit in a no 4 style stock?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote terrylee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2015 at 11:33am
In his latest book on the Lee Enfields, "The Lee Enfield", published in 2007, Skennerton covers the "Rifle No.4 Mk.I Trials Model" with a photo on Page 491. Apart from the piling swivel and waisted sight protector, its muzzle configuration is similar to the earlier No.1 Mk.VI and later No.4.    
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote terrylee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2015 at 11:38am
Sorry, slight wording problem here! the muzzle configuration is identical to the No.1 Mk VI.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2015 at 12:07pm
Cool, thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2015 at 8:50pm
shamu - you are correct the mkV was the "trials rifle" the mkVI was the transition - never trials amnd these quickly progreesded to the no4 mkI , it all happened so fast there is not much recorded history with documations we can hang our hat on , 

the stacking swivel for the number four was a centered version as opposed to the offset of the earlier rifles , it lasted a very fleeting moment - was no longer relevant or needed and actually considered hindrance  i think 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2015 at 7:54am
Hoo Boy, a holy grail search begins.
BWHAHAHaHahaha!Evil Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2015 at 10:53am
sorry didnt mean to ignore the whole topic for that single issue , stock disc was simalrly short lived ,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2015 at 11:39am
No problem, It was an interesting diversion there when I saw the plate & went Huh? What?
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