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My No.1 MKIII SMLE - Restoring begins! 10/22/17

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    Posted: November 04 2017 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by englishman_ca englishman_ca wrote:

Here is a thought or two of the time line on this rifle.

The barrel is a recycled one, the 1917 date on it comes from its first incarnation, not so much as when it was fitted to your rifle..

What is readily apparent is that it was fitted and the barrel was renumbered, suggesting to me that it was an official swap done in service by an armourer. This also suggests to me that it was done post 1925. 

Here is a tidbit of Enfield minutia;... Before 1925, according to British regulations, it was the barrel that was considered to be the master component of a rifle. This goes back to the days of muzzle loaders, the barrel was the gun. 
If the barrel on your rifle had been changed out before Jan 1925, it would have been the receiver that was renumbered to match, the barrel having the master serial number.
In 1925 things changed and it applies today, in that it is now the receiver that is deemed to be the master component. A replacement barrel would be renumbered to match the receiver serial, as yours is.

The bolt is another recycled component renumbered, albeit with a typo, is likely an armourer's change too. So this war horse has been there and has put on some miles in service. It might have been through two world wars and had more than one barrel change.


Thanks so much for the information! You guys are an elite bunch that produce a wealth of knowledge! I am learning and absorbing everything!

I am so glad to be able to get this thing back in it's original configuration. I still need to locate the fore end walnut pieces.  It's been a job!

Cheers to you fine gents! Beer

Brad
1917 NO1. MKIII ShtLE
1948 NO4. MK1 (F)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2017 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by hoadie hoadie wrote:

..."3 Band Enfield Brothers"


This group is the best! Clap

Brad


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2017 at 12:15pm
Here is a thought or two of the time line on this rifle.

The barrel is a recycled one, the 1917 date on it comes from its first incarnation, not so much as when it was fitted to your rifle..

What is readily apparent is that it was fitted and the barrel was renumbered, suggesting to me that it was an official swap done in service by an armourer. This also suggests to me that it was done post 1925. 

Here is a tidbit of Enfield minutia;... Before 1925, according to British regulations, it was the barrel that was considered to be the master component of a rifle. This goes back to the days of muzzle loaders, the barrel was the gun. 
If the barrel on your rifle had been changed out before Jan 1925, it would have been the receiver that was renumbered to match, the barrel having the master serial number.
In 1925 things changed and it applies today, in that it is now the receiver that is deemed to be the master component. A replacement barrel would be renumbered to match the receiver serial, as yours is.

The bolt is another recycled component renumbered, albeit with a typo, is likely an armourer's change too. So this war horse has been there and has put on some miles in service. It might have been through two world wars and had more than one barrel change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2017 at 8:45am
..."3 Band Enfield Brothers"
Loose wimmen tightened here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2017 at 5:59am
Excellent information from ALL you guys! I just wish I could see where this rifle has been!

I assumed the bolt and barrel were fit at the same time, but I noticed that the #4 stamp on both pieces do not match. 

Do I have myself correct with it's timeline.

The receiver was originally produced as an RSAF Enfield in 1917.

Barrel changed in 1917. This replacement barrel was originally fitted earlier to rifle O 1026.

A BSA bolt was fitted and stamped one number off incorrectly in 19XX.

More questions for the pros!

Does the font of the stamp indicate a facility or era?

Is the "O" stamp on the receiver original to its serial number or was it added later when parts were refitted? 

Thanks again my Enfield brothers!

Brad


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2017 at 12:05pm
Birmingham style Brit Govt broad arrow acceptance mark and a BSA factory inspector mark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2017 at 3:09am





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2017 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:


i think its possible they overstamped the original prefix , ROF Enfield used the O prefix in 1917 [as well as 16 & 18 and switched from mkIII to mkIII* in 1916 ]


I just looked at the bolt again. It does look like the bolt has been ground on, quite possibly removing the original number, and the O 1476 stamped on it. I will post pics of it as well as another mark I found near the bolt knob soon.

Brad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2017 at 2:24pm
BTW - 
The bolt handle is one number off from the barrel/receiver. It is stamped 1476 and appears to not have been re stamped. The barrel/receiver is stamped 1475 as shown in the pictures. Was it just stamped wrong by the armorer?
My thought would be that it was probably stamped incorrectly when the bolt was fitted. Being only one number off seems to make that more probable. A replacement bolt may also explain the older style cocking piece. As I said, they used any parts available for repairs. The armourer's didn't care what we would think of as "correct", the rifle had to function, period

i think its possible they overstamped the original prefix , ROF Enfield used the O prefix in 1917 [as well as 16 & 18 and switched from mkIII to mkIII* in 1916 ]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2017 at 6:46am
It's to a Sportsman 58 Remington. The 58 was the predecessor to the 1100 and was Remington's first gas shotgun. It used a barrel that is identical to an 870 but had gas ports drilled in the attachment loop.

I inherited the 58 from my late grandpa Verlan. That gun took hundreds of pheasants from '59 till up in the late 90's.

Brad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2017 at 7:27pm
Last week I got done stripping and cleaning my Grandpa Kizer's Ithaca Model 37 Featherlight 16 gauge and I know that barrel is not off an Ithaca 37. Other than that I am stumped. So, what's it from?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2017 at 5:24pm
i have an ithaca 37 , fun old guns , mine works most of the time - except when you want it to - are counting on it ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2017 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Ithaca 37?


No, not an Ithaca. Tongue

Brad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2017 at 1:18pm
I meant the "OTHER" right
Loose wimmen tightened here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2017 at 12:40pm
Ithaca 37?
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2017 at 9:16am
Thanks guys!

Any guesses on the barrel top center? LOL

Brad
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