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The Armourer View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 09 2019 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by 303carbine 303carbine wrote:

Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

It is a Lee Enfield, model : "Rifle No4 Mk1"

Manufactured (probably) 1943 / 44

Manufactured in the UK by BSA

Does the serial number on the rear of the bolt handle match that on the butt-socket ?


BSA marks their 303 rifles with M47C, this one only has the M


Not quite correct as they were marked for the factory of production.

I think if you look closely at the markings on the Butt-Socket of the OP's rifle there is the "M" and signs of part of a "4" and some grind marks - I would suggest that this rifle was marked M47? but has been 'scrubbed'.

All factories in the North were prefixed with a "N", those in the Midlands were prefixed by "M" and those in the South prefixed by "S"

M47A     -     B.S.A. Guns, Small Heath, Birmingham     UK
M47B     -     B.S.A. Guns, Redditch, Hereford & Worcester     UK
M47C     -     B.S.A. Guns, Shirley, Birmingham     UK

You may not be aware of the relevance of the 'later' dispersal rifles :

With the invasion scare, the Ministry of Supply ordered BSA to make rifles out of whatever parts it could get together. Hence the rifles were made of mixtures of commercial and military parts, mixed walnut and beech wood (or all-beech), later on No4 butts and firing pin/cocking pieces. A second wave of production in 1945 even used recycled and re-dated receivers.
About the same time the emergency rifle production was started, BSA was ordered to disperse its many Birmingham factories away from the bomb-target central area, and also to increase war production by diluting experienced staff with war staff. BSA was a huge engineering group, and this "Dispersal" programme led to 70 separate factories being set up, moved and/or expanded. Rifle production involved several of these factories (both No1s and No4s), and this type of "all available parts" No1 has become known as a "Dispersal rifle". Technically, even the No4s were Dispersals, as well as motorbikes, bicycles, aircraft parts, machine guns and heavy weaponry...
BSA marked these rifles with just the first "B" of BSA & Co. Presumably this was to dissociate the company from these slightly less-than top quality peacetime rifles!


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303carbine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 303carbine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2019 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

It is a Lee Enfield, model : "Rifle No4 Mk1"

Manufactured (probably) 1943 / 44

Manufactured in the UK by BSA

Does the serial number on the rear of the bolt handle match that on the butt-socket ?

BSA marks their 303 rifles with M47C, this one only has the M
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2019 at 8:29pm
nothing like shinny pointy bits to get their attention at close quarters , if your a ways out im aiming center mass - just so you know , im not out of bullets yet , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2019 at 9:54am
Cry



Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stanforth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2019 at 5:06am
https://pics.me.me/halt-or-i-shall-simulate-gunfire-meanwhile-in-england-lol-6881769.png

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2019 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by pkocke pkocke wrote:

Thanks again! I held a flashlight to the bolt handle and there is a serial number: 85L6655>. I don't know if this helps any. I'll try the sharpie method and let you know
The L in the serial number is indicative of it being made at the Canadian  Long Branch facility...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2019 at 4:16pm
Don't forget to pull back on the bolt handle while doing it, it simulates a loaded round's resistance.
Wink

https://pics.me.me/halt-or-i-shall-simulate-gunfire-meanwhile-in-england-lol-6881769.png
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pkocke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2019 at 10:37am
Thanks again! I held a flashlight to the bolt handle and there is a serial number: 85L6655>. I don't know if this helps any. I'll try the sharpie method and let you know
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MJ11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2019 at 7:47am
Hmmm?

Early cocking piece knob on the replaced bolt.

Welcome aboard.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2019 at 7:02am
Great minds . . .
Star
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2019 at 6:59am
Great idea Shamu. You beat me to it by 43 seconds!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2019 at 6:58am
I use a big fat industrial black magic marker in place of engineers' blue, it shows up the contact points like a charm.

I don't get hung up on the 'even' bearing. The very configuration of the two lugs is quite different. The small lug does the camming for initial extraction on opening. Their cam tracks are not the same.

As long as i get contact on both lugs I am happy. 'Good contact' being the judgement call.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2019 at 6:57am
You can also use a "sharpie" to add ink the the lugs if you cant get Blue.

The bolts definitely been ground both the serial number & the proof mark are gone.
Confused


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2019 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by pkocke pkocke wrote:

   My next question is how do I assure the locking lugs have equal contact?



Remove bolt
Add 'Engineers blue' to the bolt lugs
Reassemble bolt into rifle
Cycle bolt
Remove bolt (gently)
Inspect bolt.

Wherever there is 'engineers blue' there is no contact between the bolt lugs and the action lugs.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stuart-Engineers-Micrometer-Blue-Marking-38-gram-Tin-FROM-CHRONOS/371553549413?epid=1888958634&hash=item5682513c65:g:YEAAAOSwJ59Z1R82

Your 'local' ebay, Amazon or Engineering store should have it readily available.


If you 'come back' with the results, we can advise on the next stage (if needed)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pkocke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2019 at 7:58pm
Thanks to everyone who has responded. I've attached pictures of the back of the bolt handle, which sounds like it is a mismatch. I always thought the model number was M194. The pictures show all of the gun markings.    My next question is how do I assure the locking lugs have equal contact?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2019 at 6:51am
A small correction if I may.
100% is NOT the goal. Its also damn near impossible.
Equal contact on both is the goal.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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