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Trying to find out history of my Enfield No4 Mk1 |
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Wolfmonat 
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Joined: July 22 2023 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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 Topic: Trying to find out history of my Enfield No4 Mk1Posted: July 22 2023 at 8:26pm |
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Lee Enfield No4 Mk1with the following details
Enfield No4 MK1 ROF (F ) 5/43 CC25797A.
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RHJNewcombe
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Joined: July 01 2023 Location: Basingstoke Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Posted: September 11 2023 at 12:43am |
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i too have a No4 Mk 1 ROF (F) 5/43 with an unusual serial number of 89C6333
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Goosic
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Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8167 |
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Posted: September 13 2023 at 5:47am |
RHJNewcombe: Does your rifle have U.S. PROPERTY in 1/4" letters stamped on it anywhere on the reciever along with a square S and a what looks like a ball with a feather sticking out of it? Is the serial number on the wristsocket? How is the bolt removed from your rifle? Your serial number is a Savage made No4Mk1* and I would like to see some pictures of the reciever showing the stamps please...
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Goosic
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Posted: September 13 2023 at 5:54am |
The serial number indicates that your rifle was made at the ROF/Royal Ordnance Fazakerley plant and the A suffix indicates something is PARTS SPECIFIC to that rifle...
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A square 10
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Posted: September 13 2023 at 6:46pm |
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there you gp - without photos we have not much further to offer , are these complete rifles or have they been sported ? it makes a difference to what might actually be offered beyond that ?
we do have the references to get you a bit more if not in many cases but we dont have service records as nne exist unless these rifles are marked to specific use - some are , these markings will be in different areas than what we generally ask gor first , the tiny ones are most often inspection marks but on the butt plates and such are often other marks we can help with , you have good rifles - sorry we cant offer moch more without photos
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RHJNewcombe
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Posted: September 18 2023 at 9:50am |
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my rifle is a British N04 mark 1 and clearly marked on the receiver as a No4 mk 1 ROF (F) 5/43
it is not a sporter it has a full set of furniture although i suspect not original as too good. the left wrist serial number is clearly stamped 89C6333 no it does not say US Property on it and i know where to look for that. and no there is no S in a square i think under this clear serial number you can faintly see DB???? possibly DB2??? why would a British rifle have a Savage serial number on it ? ill try to work out how to add a picture
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RHJNewcombe
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Posted: September 18 2023 at 10:01am |
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oh and its not a No4 mk1* either it has the British No4 Mk1 style of bolt release catch
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RHJNewcombe
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Posted: September 18 2023 at 10:25am |
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RHJNewcombe
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Posted: September 18 2023 at 10:29am |
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RHJNewcombe
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Posted: September 18 2023 at 10:44am |
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Goosic
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Posted: September 18 2023 at 12:43pm |
Look under the 89. You can make out CB2. That 89C6333 is someone's attempt at restamping an actual Fazakerley made No4Mk1. The serial number is in the wrong "Font" as well. As to why a Fazackerly made No4Mk1 has a Savage serial number stamped into is anybodies guess. You can clearly see the electro stenciled CB2 under the stamp with the 2 indicating that is a Fazakerley made Enfield. The 9 and the 6 were stamped using a crude method and not following the proper procedure that Savage used. You have a No4Mk1 Fazakerley made Enfield that someone figured they could pass off as an early Savage maybe. Savage made No4Mk1 rifles would have a B stamped over or under the serial number. They would have a square S on it as well. The reciever would have a Flaming Bomb stamped on it and any Savage made No4Mk1 after 1942 would definitely have U.S. PROPERTY stamped on it. The following photo shows a proper Savage serial number...
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Goosic
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Posted: September 18 2023 at 12:46pm |
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The first picture and the second picture show two very different rear sights.
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britrifles
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Posted: September 18 2023 at 12:50pm |
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I noticed that too…
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A square 10
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Posted: September 18 2023 at 7:55pm |
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agree - two different rear sights - i think two different rifles and i agree serial has been restamped with wrong stamps , someone was trying to make a silk pourse me thinks but what a shame to ruin a rifle to do it ,
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RHJNewcombe
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Posted: September 19 2023 at 12:15am |
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thank you Goosic. I was sure it was a British No4 mk1 made at Fazakerley in 5/43 but as you say why would someone then add a Savage serial number to it. Intriguing.
Front Stock furniture is too good condition to be original and has no markings. The butt stock i think is older and has the N49 (Morris) and War department broad arrow marks in the small of the stock behind trigger guard. additionally it also says ENGLAND on the bottom of the left wrist under this serial number. I understand this is a US import mark used in the 1960s and 1970s . I guess this means that it was exported to the US at some point then, but is now back in Britain.
well spotted on the rear sights. Actually when i purchased the rifle it had a mk2 L shaped sight on it. I had a mark 4 stamped rear sight so i tried it on the rifle. I have recently found a mark 1 singer sight and have added this to the rifle instead. It is the same rifle the photos were taken about a month apart . i was trying to show the No4 Mk1 bolt release catch on the right side of receiver . The other markings in photos 1 and 2 are on left side. |
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Goosic
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Posted: September 19 2023 at 11:28am |
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To answer your question about why would someone stamp a Savage serial number over a Fazakerley serial number that is clearly in electro stencil? My only thought is that someone was attempting to create an early made, "pre 1942" Savage No4Mk1 that uses the bolt release catch and is devoid of the U.S.PROPERTY stamp.
The conflicting items are the electro stenciled date of 5/43 and Savage serial number that indicates that the Savage No4Mk1* the serial number was intended for and attached to was made in the third week of February 1944. The main issue with the current serial number is in the way it is stamped. The stamping is curved and the 9 & 6 have been struck deep and at an angle on the curved side of the numbers. Savage used a stamping press with evenly spaced numbers in a block set. I do not know how long you have had that rifle but in the last couple of years, the Savage No4Mk1* has seen a considerable uptick in value and more so for parts. If your rifle is registered to you with that serial number just leave it alone. No sense in muddying the already muddy waters. Post photos of the rest of the rifle please...
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RHJNewcombe wrote: