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With British Snipers to the Reich |
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Online Points: 8404 |
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Posted: July 18 2025 at 5:00am |
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Here is what Capt C Shore writes about the grouping capacity of the service rifle with Mk 7 ammunition:
An excellent shot with a good rifle, iron sights, and standard Mk VII ammunition would put up consistent 3” to 4” groups at 100 yards. And that speaks volumes for the man, the rifle and the ammunition. Lest anyone thinks that that shooting with a service rifle is not so hot, let me say that I am by no means alone in maintaining that a man who is capable of consistently (every time he shoots) putting up five shot 2” groups at 100 yards with a service rifle equipped with telescopic sights is a superb shot. The key word here being consistently. I think what he is saying is right on the mark. If I’m honest, I can’t attain a consistent 2” group at 100 yards with any of my No. 4 rifles, including the T. I rarely beat that with iron sights or able to achieve a 2 MOA group out to 300 yards with the T perhaps 50% of the time. And I’m using “match grade” handloads! I’m speaking of 10 shot groups, not five, but it still shows the high standard of accuracy of shooter, rifle and ammunition in WWII. |
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Shamu
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Posted: July 18 2025 at 11:08am |
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My thought on "sewing part of a Vickers belt" is that it's fat, wide & very stiff, so I'd think it difficult to sew & even more so to wear! Especially when they could source "ammo Belts" from various places with no problems.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Sapper740
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Joined: July 15 2021 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 1737 |
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Posted: July 18 2025 at 12:37pm |
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I'm always very interested in what level of accuracy can be attained with any of my milsurp rifles without human variables blowing groups up so I do all my load development by firing groups from a Lead Sled. I want to see what the rifle can do, not what I can't do. It's a rare Lee Enfield that won't give 3 MOA and some as good as 1 MOA with the right load from the Lead Sled. I find that stock Lee Enfield rifles with a good bore give very acceptable accuracy.....except when I'm thrown into the mix.
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Shamu
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Posted: July 18 2025 at 3:38pm |
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Agreed. We're testing the rifle & load, not our shooting ability. I use a front-rest & it's bag, a rear bag & barely touch the rifle except for the butt-stock & trigger. This is intentional. I don't use the sled because recoil action is based on a somewhat "flexible" recoil absorption, (Me! ) rather than a rigid "stop"![]() I usually have the front bag back where my offhand would be, just in front of the magazine, this was just for a photo set shot. ![]() |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles
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Posted: July 18 2025 at 3:57pm |
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There was a time, a few years back, I would get smaller groups shooting prone in the sling than off the bench. Presumably because of more consistent recoil “jump” than with the rifle rested. Those days seem to be gone.
Capt Shore has another interesting write up on resting the rifle forend on a sandbag vs holding the forend and resting the hand on the sandbag. It was a popular belief that the forend should never be rested on a sandbag, only the support hand. He claims that is a myth and was dispelled. |
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Shamu
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Posted: July 19 2025 at 11:48am |
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I've found the positioning of the front bag matters more than grasping it or resting on the bag. Possibly using the "off hand" to hold the toe of the stock may possibly be the difference?
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles
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Posted: July 19 2025 at 3:20pm |
Yes, that’s how I hold the rifle in the sniper match. I rest the forend on the front bag about mid way between the magazine and sling swivel band, left hand reaches around to hold the butt stock into the shoulder and off the ground. Works quite well. |
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Shamu
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Posted: July 20 2025 at 9:43am |
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I'm a little further back than that, I hold the fore-stock just in front of the center sling swivel. I use the off hand to fine tune elevation. Coarse sighting with the front rest screw, pinching the bag for a fine tune. Oh & resetting to the same spot on the front rest every shot.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles
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Posted: July 20 2025 at 12:02pm |
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I’ll get someone to take a picture next time I’m out with the T shooting prone with the bag front rest. These bags are “issued” at the matches, and no others can be used. They are fairly large and make contact for about an 8” length of the fore-end. We have the option to shoot prone unsupported with a sling, but I’ve not seen anyone do that.
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Strangely Brown
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Joined: April 05 2022 Location: Wiltshire Status: Offline Points: 645 |
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Posted: July 20 2025 at 2:18pm |
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In the UK for the McQueens sniper match at Bisley we have in the past had had 2 traditional sandbags and a third filled with heather cuttings from the surrounding countryside. I rather suspect this is, (or was) a hangover from the the regimental sniper courses held on the surrounding ranges?
I only ever shoot it with a modern rifle and bipod, the sandbags I used to put in front and behind of the bipod to minimise it creeping forward, although one if front should do the job. The heather filled bag I stuff under the right hand chest of my chest for support...it's an age thing! Looking at images of this years McQueens which ended today I notice only one sandbag per firing point but the have increased the number of "castles" to four from three. These are the castles if you're unfamiliar with the McQueens, you get two sighters on a target frame to the side of the castle followed by ten 3 minute exposures with varying times between each one in any of the apertures on the castle or on top of the castellations. ![]() |
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Mick
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A square 10
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Posted: July 20 2025 at 4:36pm |
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i cant go prone anymore , i would take too long getting back up and im certain someone would accuse me of breaking the 170 when i used my rifle as a crutch getting up ,
somewhat kidding but partially not , my body has aged more in the last couple years than it ever used to , i rather resnt being on the downhill slide to 80 but ive found no way to reverse the process , but i do enjoy reading of your experiences and only wish id have thought of it sooner in life
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Sapper740
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Joined: July 15 2021 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 1737 |
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Posted: July 21 2025 at 4:00am |
I feel ya A square, the last three years haven't been good to me health-wise. I always kept fit throughout my Sixties, walking 3 1/2 miles 5 times a week, Planking several times for a minute at a time, could still do 12 pushups and a few pull-ups. I could crawl around underneath and over my vehicles to do repairs and whatnot. Then came the Prostate cancer diagnosis in late 2022 with 40 Proton therapy sessions which weren't too bad but 4 Lupron injections absolutely devastated my physical abilities. I lost a lot of muscle mass and gained weight way too easily. That was followed by a kidney stone attack and lithotripsy, then MOHS surgery for a BCC, then a hip replacement. I feel like I've aged 20 years in just three.
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britrifles
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Posted: July 21 2025 at 4:50am |
This is indeed the one thing I am finding more difficult as the years pass, especially after those 20 round strings of prone slow fire. I'm not yet at the point of needing to use my cart as a crutch, but that is coming. In the sniper match, there are several shooters that are in their 80's. Their shooting partner helps them get back up. It's good to see these guys out there, and some are very good shooters. Gives the rest of us some hope... |
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Strangely Brown
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Posted: July 21 2025 at 5:48am |
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Well aren't we all peas in a pod!
I prefer to shoot prone but like the rest of you I often need help getting back up; usually by climbing up my No.4 and using it as a stick to steady myself. The damp winters are the worst and seem to make the metal work in my body ache far more than summer. I've had one knee relaced and the other is now on the way out. ![]() |
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Mick
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