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303 British Brass Options? |
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HammerDown
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Joined: December 08 2023 Location: PRK Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Posted: December 12 2023 at 4:50pm |
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I've been using Serbian HotShot ammo that was available from Century Arms International many years ago. I have 180gr soft point and 174gr FMJ. It's pretty stout stuff, with the 174's chronographing 2350 fps. Same as PPU only with a Cyrillic headstamp.
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Goosic
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Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8842 |
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Posted: December 12 2023 at 7:33pm |
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2350 FPS is ideally where your reloads should be, or in that general vicinity. You will find that your accuracy will diminish with the higher volume of powder charges are concerned whereas you can improve the accuracy by keeping the powder charges close to if not duplicating the original load data. My personal accuracy load is 3grns under maximum charge weight using VihtaVuori N540 and the 174grn FMJBT resulting in an average FPS of 2340 with a plus or minus of 12 fps. My C.O.L. is 3.110". @ 200 yards this results in a ten shot group with a diameter of 1.475"...
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HammerDown
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Joined: December 08 2023 Location: PRK Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Posted: December 12 2023 at 7:55pm |
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Sub MOA at 200 yards, with iron sights is some excellent shooting!
I've used Varget and StaBall 6.5 to emulate factory loads. 180gr Remington Core Lokt @ 2375 fps.
I really like the No.4 MkI sight picture and action, although the P14 is probably my favorite. |
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Goosic
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Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8842 |
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Posted: December 12 2023 at 8:05pm |
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Those groups are made using my "Backyard Bubba'd" No4Mk1/2 made to resemble a Parker Hale Supreme No4...
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HammerDown
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Joined: December 08 2023 Location: PRK Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Posted: December 12 2023 at 8:35pm |
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It looks like "Backyard Bubba" can get it done.
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Shamu
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Posted: December 13 2023 at 11:13am |
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Yes PPU/nny headstamped is good stuff.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
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Posted: December 15 2023 at 4:51am |
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I’ve learned my lesson the hard way about using double based powders (that is Nitrocellulose and Nitroglycerin). They give great velocity and excellent accuracy. But not very temp stable and very hard on the throat.
I burned the throat out of two barrels in my AR in less than 1500 rounds, 600 yd accuracy went all to crap, then 300, then 200. I’m staying away from those double based ball powders like AA2520 and only use single based stick powders like Varget and the 100 series of VV powders. I won’t use the 500 series like N540. Lots of reports of very short barrel life with N540 even though it’s currently available and N140 is not (there’s a reason for this guys…). |
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Goosic
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Posted: December 15 2023 at 6:27am |
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A combination of both increased muzzle velocities from near max charge weights to trigger the electronic targets that are set up at those long distances you choose to shoot at and barrels that are not built to last could be the reason for your shortened barrel life Geoff.
The N540 powder is "Very versatile and Very temperature stable" which makes for an excellent hunting load. When used correctly with mild to midrange charge weights, the N540 will propel your choice of caliber down range with no issues. It is only when you load the N540 to near maximum charge weights that you run the risks of burning out the barrel, especially a .22-.25 caliber centerfire rifle barrel. (I personally know of an individual who junked a rifle barrel chambered for the .220 Swift using Varget. He wanted to duplicate the factory rated 4110 FPS of that bullet, and he burned the throat out in less than 750 firings using Varget.) I use the N540 for my .243W, .308W, and .303B for the simple reasons of not having to switch to a different powder for the different calibers and I both hunt and target shoot. Keeping the charge weight to 39.5grns for the .303 results in very mild recoil with an averaged FPS of 2355 while still maintaining its accuracy. Using the same 39.5grns for the .308W and the averaged FPS is mere 2305. The one and only issue I encountered using N540 for my .243W is when I chronographed a group of ten rounds that had been charged with 37.2grns of N540 which is 2.0grn below maximum charge weight. The averaged FPS was 3210 which is 140+ FPS faster than the printed data using the max charge weight. Dropping the charge weight to the minimum of 35.0grns still produced numbers exceeding 2850 FPS. I am using the 90grn OTM Scenar-L BTHP but decided to use the minimum charge weight of 35.5grns for the 90.0grn Sierra FMJ-BT and the averaged FPS stabilized at 2775 FPS. I have no doubt in my mind that had I kept shooting the rifle using the 37.2grns of N540 without doing my own load work up or, work down as my case implies, I would have burned that barrel out prematurely. My assumption is that if you were using N540 with your AR loads, you burned the barrel out by having near to max charge weights used. Again, just an assumption Geoff...
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Goosic
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Posted: December 15 2023 at 6:51am |
I read the various comments from individuals regarding short barrel life when using the N540 and it was intresting to notice that most, if not all of those people seemed confused and did not understand why their barrels were junked so soon even when they openly admitted to running near to or maximum charge weights for their particular AR platform. It seemed to me that, just from observing the various comments that, these AR shooters were mainly in it to see just how fast they could get those rounds down range with a "Pray and Spray" mentality...
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
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Posted: December 15 2023 at 7:14am |
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Im sure there is some of that going on.
But many others who are accomplished mid and long range shooters found this out the hard way too, mostly in .308 Palma and F-Class match shooting, these guys are definitely not “pray and spray” types.
I think the detrimental effects of throat erosion can somewhat be mitigated by using reduced loads, although that typically means higher standard deviations with these powders. My own personal experience with Re15 and AA2520 taught me to stay away from double based powders. Problem is though, that seems to be the ones that are currently available and my go to single based propellants are hard to find. |
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Goosic
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Posted: December 15 2023 at 8:40am |
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I have been using the VihtaVuori N540 going on 4 years now and have yet to discover any higher than normal deviations with reduced powder charges, especially when used for target shooting using the .243W. In fact, I had noticed a definitive incline in accuracy with the reduced charge weight. I have a reason to believe that the 6mm projectile is destabilizing at the 3200 FPS velocities and causing the adverse effects in accuracy.
When I tested the N540 against IMR4064, IMR4895, and IMR3031 using 174grn .311 projectiles, I notated that reducing the N540 charge 1.5grns lower than the 39.5grns of the Improved Military Rifle powder produced significant gains in accuracy while maintaining a very stabilized FPS with a plus or minus of only 12-15 FPS which greatly improves the odds when hunting. The other advantage is that when used for deer hunting, you definitely are not going to erode the throat out of your rifles barrel using the N540 powder...
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
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Posted: December 15 2023 at 2:22pm |
Not the case. I don’t shoot the AR at long ranges. As my post above said, I burned out two barrels on my AR shooting AA2520, which is a double based powder. It’s a simple fact that Nitroglycerin burns very hot. It was a mild load at modest velocity. My long range .308 load is Varget, a single based powder that is far more temp stable than any double based powders. N540 is not very temp stable, long range shooters had to run a winter load a a summer load. This has been experimented on and well proven. I won’t be putting any double based powders thru my LE’s, I need the barrels to last. Think of what Cordite did to LE barrels (which is a double based smokeless propellant). My long range .308 Varget loads are exactly mid range in the load tables, not “near max charge weights”. I make it a point to stay away from max loads. But, don’t take my word for it, you can find out the hard way too..as many others beside me have. If you only shoot a few rounds a year, you won’t have to worry about it. |
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Rifleman 184
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Joined: July 13 2022 Location: Californa, USA Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Posted: December 20 2023 at 1:15pm |
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Still have a small stash of HXP 74 new ammo which I'm saving. a ton of HXP brass. I have loaded PPU and it works well. I have gone to annealing the neck/shoulder to reduce fatigue. No splits in ages.
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Shamu
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Posted: December 20 2023 at 5:18pm |
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That's the trick!
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
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Posted: December 20 2023 at 5:18pm |
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After 25 years of reloading, I rarely annealed cases. But, a year ago I decided to add that to my brass prep stage, every time. I got the Annealing Made Perfect machine, pricy, but haven't looked back.
Failure modes in .303 brass tends to be case head cracking, I rarely had split necks. This was almost exclusively Canadian WWII made Mk 7 cases that I reloaded. But, every other cartridge that I reloaded, the end of case life was because of cracks in the neck, particularly .223, .30-06 and .308. I now rarely encounter that problem. Attention to detail in the sizing process and annealing has resulted in very long brass life.
I can’t say for sure if accuracy is any better with annealing. It definitely changed bullet seating forces (neck tension). I had been using undersized expanders/mandrels on the sizing dies to account for the significant spring back that occurs after several reloads without annealing, so I had to change these back to standard size expanders/mandrels. It’s another variable in the reloading process that is just added to the ongoing debate. |
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Shamu
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Posted: December 20 2023 at 5:20pm |
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I anneal every 3 firings. Once done it takes several to re harden to the point I feel its needed.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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