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britrifles 
Senior Member
Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Georgia, USA
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Points: 8404
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 Posted: January 13 2021 at 4:15am |
If you do a search online for load data on this cartridge you will find it was loaded with 41.7 gr IMR 4064. That is a mild load for .308 Winchester.
What does is say on the box for muzzle velocity?
Goosic, didn’t you chrono this ammo in your No. 4?
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Goosic
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Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
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Points: 8842
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Posted: January 13 2021 at 6:57am |
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Some rounds just over 2500 and some just under 2500 with the highest speed being 2545 and the lowest at 2480. No flattened primers and no noticable case bulging.
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Enfield Envoy
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Joined: December 19 2020
Location: Switzerland
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Points: 46
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Posted: January 13 2021 at 10:19am |
Thanks, Goosic ! 
Thats really interesting.. More to your informative posts later.. Snow calls 
Sometimes I receive the impression that the opinions diverge here.. .
Have a good evening all of you.
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Enfield Envoy
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Enfield Envoy
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Joined: December 19 2020
Location: Switzerland
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Posted: January 18 2021 at 3:48pm |
This Federal ammo 150 grs and 180 grs you mentioned here: its which type concretely, Goosic ? The bullet style would be fine... Because I cant find it here in the Swiss offerings. Thanks !
Best regards
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Enfield Envoy
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Goosic
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Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
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Points: 8842
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Posted: January 18 2021 at 5:32pm |
The only two commercially loaded Federal Ammunition 308Win loads i referenced were the 168grn and 175grn Sierra Matchking rounds.
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Enfield Envoy
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Posted: January 19 2021 at 5:27am |
he!!o Goosic,
I have to be more concrete.. My old mistake ? .. Well, let's do it.. I meant this of your mentionings:
Federal commercial ammunition offers the .308 Winchester in 150 grain that typically do not exceed 42,100 CUP. Their 180grn does not exceed 44,700 CUP. Both functionally safe to use in your Ishapore. I have a No4Mk2 that I converted to 7.62x51mm as well as a No5Mk1. Both rifles have had commercial, military, and handloads through them and to date have had no issues. Take from this what you will.
Because of the enjoyable number of offerings here I can't be sure. Do this two loads belong to Federals American Eagle-Line, for example ? Or is it part of their hunting ammo... or something else ?..
So maybe its possible to use their .308 175 grs Gold Medal Match together with a inexpensive training respectively target practice-ammo... (With better accuracy than a cheap NATO-Ammo, hopefully).. .
That could be fine, I think.
Thanks, Goosic.
Best regards
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Enfield Envoy
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Enfield Envoy
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Joined: December 19 2020
Location: Switzerland
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Posted: January 19 2021 at 5:36am |
Said in pictures:  A handful of examples..
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Enfield Envoy
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Goosic
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Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
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Posted: January 19 2021 at 7:16am |
Yes, I mentioned the 150 and 180grn commercial ammunition and I mentioned that I have used it along with military ammunition. I used both the commercial and military rounds for testing purposes only to compare velocities with my handloads. My preferred handloads all use either Hornady or Sierra Matchking bullets and both weigh 168grn. My powders used are Norma 202, IMR4064, and IMR4895. All three powders used are loaded at a precise 41.7grns and never exceed 2525 fps. Tabulated and averaged PSI is 42,800 according to Hodgdon and Norma reloading data. The ONLY commercial 7.62/308 ammunition i will trust in an Enfield rifle is the 175grn Federal Gold Match and the 168grn Federal Gold Match. Both of which are duplicates of the military Not For Combat Use competition rounds...
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Georgia, USA
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Posted: January 19 2021 at 7:55am |
This is good advice. It will help preserve these rifles and minimize barrel and action wear. It’s well known that barrel life is highly dependent on bullet velocity.
My AR-15 match barrel begins to loose accuracy after about 2500 rounds. Bullet muzzle velocity 2800 fps with 69 gr bullets, 2700 with 80 gr bullet. For shooting the 5.56/.223 at 600 yards, need all the velocity you can get.
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Enfield Envoy
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Posted: January 19 2021 at 9:11am |
Thanks for the quick answer...
For velocity-comparisons, yes... .
Was it maybe a A.E. 150 grs-FMJ-BT-Ammo - with which muzzle-velocity, please?
Background is: we have here in CH one quite specialised shop which sometimes offers other ammo types than imported by the official representantative. Test ammo from gunmaker-companies, being exact.
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Enfield Envoy
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Goosic
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Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
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Posted: January 19 2021 at 9:48am |
A 150grn commercially loaded bullet had a chronographed speed of 2760 fps of one brand and a chronographed speed of 2814 fps of another brand. I will not divulge the brand names. They are NOT safe to use in an Enfield, be it a 2A1 or a No4 conversion. I believe we are having a language barrier issue here. I have given you the safest alternatives to reloading 168grn BTHP bullets taken from the Hodgdon reloading data base. You have asked me a few times now about 150 and 180grn bullets and if they are safe. If you handload and control the powder charge by keeping it to the very minimum then, maybe. I cannot give you a definitive yes or no on that one. If you are wanting to fire 150 or 180 commercially loaded ammunition in your Enfield? NO, NEIN, and NON! I can only give you information that I have collected data on and that is safe to use in my rifle. I do not know the condition of your rifle and will only suggest that you reload using the starting charge weight of any and all powder you may be using. I do not know any specifics on any commercial or military ammunition, be it powder type,powder weight, pressure or velocities unless it is intended for my personal use when I reload. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause in your searches to an answer...
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Enfield Envoy
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Posted: January 19 2021 at 10:28am |
Okay, Goosic.
I dont't think its a language barrier here
I understand now - the velocities which resulted from you measurings were not positive, better said potentially to high for safe use here in our rifles.
And the rest is clear, too. I agree. I won't be careless in case of reloading, of course.
But there's no absolute"verdict"that all commercial .308 Win. loads from 168 grs weight upwards are so dangerous and unsafe - it depends on the single ammo. You found two positive examples 
No inconvenience here between us, Goosic. The contrary - you had the consequence and courage to work here at this subject in a way that didn't many others, if any. During a search for a long time... .
BR
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Enfield Envoy
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britrifles
Senior Member
Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Georgia, USA
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Points: 8404
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Posted: January 19 2021 at 12:19pm |
As Gossic just said, there are many variables and there is very little chamber pressure data available on commercial ammunition (and that is subject to change). That’s why I avoid it in my No. 4 rifles. Keep in mind, the same No. 4 action that was designed for the .303 British cartridge is being used in these 7.62 conversion rifles. Even though they were proofed to use 7.62 NATO ball ammunition produced at the time, there are so many other variables by using modern .308 Win ammunition it is not worth the risk in my opinion. Not so much that I fear a major failure from firing a few rounds, I worry about the long term effects.
Goosic ran the tests measuring velocity of the Federal 175 grain Gold Medal Match ammunition and with his own handloads using the very same bullet and powder. By referring to the published reloading data tables we can confirm that this particular ammunition is a low pressure load and will not be detrimental to the No. 4 action. I don’t think there is much more to be said about this subject, I believe reloading is really the best option for these old rifles.
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Enfield Envoy
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Joined: December 19 2020
Location: Switzerland
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Posted: January 19 2021 at 5:16pm |
Good morning, In any case, it was the biggest possible surprise that especially Federals 175 gr Gold Medal Match was not as"hot"laborated as many believed. Or even were convinced of... . Yes.. The civilian part of this Long-Range Sniper Ammo, which is so clever produced..
And even now some will not agree at all, we won't have to wait long... . Sure.. 
Despite this, Have a good night
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Enfield Envoy
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Goosic
Senior Member
Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
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Points: 8842
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Posted: January 19 2021 at 7:24pm |
 Enfield Envoy wrote:
Good morning,In any case, it was the biggest possible surprise that especially Federals 175 gr Gold Medal Match was not as"hot"laborated as many believed. Or even were convinced of... . Yes.. The civilian part of this Long-Range Sniper Ammo, which is so clever produced..
And even now some will not agree at all, we won't have to wait long... . Sure..
Despite this, Have a good night |
Enfield Envoy: Für Ihren Gesandten. Finden Sie einige Norma Precision Black Diamond 168grn Munition. Die Geschwindigkeiten liegen innerhalb sicherer Parameter für das Enfield. Wenn Sie tatsächlich neu laden, gehen Sie zur Hodgdons-Website und geben Sie die Informationen ein, die Sie recherchieren möchten, und laden Sie die Daten in Ihre Dateien herunter. Ich spreche kein Deutsch. Dies ist ein Englisch-Deutsch-Übersetzer...
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Enfield Envoy
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Joined: December 19 2020
Location: Switzerland
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Points: 46
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Posted: January 20 2021 at 1:10am |
Good morning, Goosic
Even German Text - Great. Yes..
We had this Norma  in CH, too... I bought in the last years one or two boxes of .308 Win. of different types here and there. Including this Diamond Line 168 gr. I didn't test it yet in any Rifle... I don't have their data at hand ?... In any case she is a very well known and also here quite often used Match ammo, yes... A Reference Cartridge...
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Enfield Envoy
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Best surplus ammo for nato 7.62x51 Enfield Pt 2
