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Project Long Branch

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Goosic View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 03 2022 at 9:04am
I have been tinkering with the idea of constructing one last sporterized Enfield using the only reciever I have available and that being a 1942 made Long Branch. It was already cut up when I got it so I have been cleaning up the lines and fitting a PH A-29 scope base to it. I am using the scope mount from a Marlin 336A to complete that part of the project. The trigger is a fully adjustable model made by John Huber Concepts.  The barrel that will be mated to the reciever is a 5 groove BSA M47C variant...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 9:24am
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

I have been tinkering with the idea of constructing one last sporterized Enfield using the only reciever I have available and that being a 1942 made Long Branch. It was already cut up when I got it so I have been cleaning up the lines and fitting a PH A-29 scope base to it. I am using the scope mount from a Marlin 336A to complete that part of the project. The trigger is a fully adjustable model made by John Huber Concepts.  The barrel that will be mated to the reciever is a 5 groove BSA M47C variant...

I know you 'know your stuff' but my concerns would be there is no support across the rear of the action - NO charger bridge and NO rear sight.

This will allow a lot of flex and will upset how the various components interact.

This from Peter Laidler ............................

You could always tell the high mileage rifles, apart from the shot-out barrels because the backsight axis pin retaining pin (longest name of a part on the rifle. The PIN, retaining, pin axis backsight) was always sheared where the bodies had expanded at the rear and sheared it. So, if at the moment of firing/and max pressure/load the body spreads at the rear, especially during a gun battle, I suppose it would upset the balance between the locking lugs, bolt and cartridge seating on the bolt face. 


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britrifles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 9:52am
I was wondering if that would come up!  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 10:05am
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

I have been tinkering with the idea of constructing one last sporterized Enfield using the only reciever I have available and that being a 1942 made Long Branch. It was already cut up when I got it so I have been cleaning up the lines and fitting a PH A-29 scope base to it. I am using the scope mount from a Marlin 336A to complete that part of the project. The trigger is a fully adjustable model made by John Huber Concepts.  The barrel that will be mated to the reciever is a 5 groove BSA M47C variant...

I know you 'know your stuff' but my concerns would be there is no support across the rear of the action - NO charger bridge and NO rear sight.

This will allow a lot of flex and will upset how the various components interact.

This from Peter Laidler ............................

You could always tell the high mileage rifles, apart from the shot-out barrels because the backsight axis pin retaining pin (longest name of a part on the rifle. The PIN, retaining, pin axis backsight) was always sheared where the bodies had expanded at the rear and sheared it. So, if at the moment of firing/and max pressure/load the body spreads at the rear, especially during a gun battle, I suppose it would upset the balance between the locking lugs, bolt and cartridge seating on the bolt face. 


This setup is no different than that of the Custom or Supreme No4 rifles supplied by Parker Hale back in the 60's. I see no reason to fret over something that will never come to light Alan. 
To get to the point that Mr. Laidler is describing, the rifle would had to have been consistently used day in and day out for years. I made an exacting clone of a Supreme No4 based off of a Maltby action. I have currently put 255 rounds down range with it and to date, it is still putting everything into the X ring at 100 yards. My dad's Custom No4 that he purchased new in 1966 from the Rod and Gun Club in New Ulm is still capable of MOA groups and recently as three weeks ago, dropped a 8x8 Mule Deer according to my sister. My point here being that, if Parker Hale Ltd was able to hack off the charging bridge and rear sight axis pins of No4Mk1 action bodies, cut the barrels down to 22 inches, fit it with basically a cutdown forend, make their own custom side mounted scope assembly and then call it good, what's there to worry about. The No4Mk2 Maltby with a M47C stamped barrel... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 10:20am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

I was wondering if that would come up!  Smile
The No1Mk111/* action bodies are devoid of a rear sight altogether and have less metal enveloping the areas around the locking lugs and yet no one gives it a single thought about the reciever spreading. Parker Hale made a Custom No1 by simply removing the charging bridge and bolting a scope mount to it. Are the No1 action bodies inherently stronger than the No4 action bodies?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 10:31am
Looking forward to watching this project! You do build beautiful Sporters!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 10:44am
Yeah, I’m having a hard time believing this is a issue.  And I can’t imagine how that tiny axis retaining pin, which is only 0.05 inch diameter, would hold the top of the receiver together.  It’s doubtful that the engineers at Enfield designed it intentionally this way.  

I thought about making a full solid Finite Element Model of the No. 4 action and bolt, apply the 18.5 tsi pressure to the bolt face and see what the stresses and deflections are in the action body and bolt.  I was primarily thinking of doing this to see what the displacement of the bolt is relative to the back of the barrel (headspace). Maybe when I retire…


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 10:49am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

Yeah, I’m having a hard time believing this is a issue.  And I can’t imagine how that tiny axis retaining pin, which is only 0.05 inch diameter, would hold the top of the receiver together.  It’s doubtful that the engineers at Enfield designed it intentionally this way.  

I thought about making a full solid Finite Element Model of the No. 4 action and bolt, apply the 18.5 tsi pressure to the bolt face and see what the stresses and deflections are in the action body and bolt.  I was primarily thinking of doing this to see what the displacement of the bolt is relative to the back of the barrel (headspace). Maybe when I retire…



That'd be a great project and I'd be very interested to see the results - hopefully you'll be retiring very soon !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 11:04am
Originally posted by Honkytonk Honkytonk wrote:

Looking forward to watching this project! You do build beautiful Sporters!
I'm using the stockset made for Herter's Sporting Goods. The reciever has been bedded to the forestock and the barrel will be fully floated...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 11:07am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

Yeah, I’m having a hard time believing this is a issue.  And I can’t imagine how that tiny axis retaining pin, which is only 0.05 inch diameter, would hold the top of the receiver together.  It’s doubtful that the engineers at Enfield designed it intentionally this way.  

I thought about making a full solid Finite Element Model of the No. 4 action and bolt, apply the 18.5 tsi pressure to the bolt face and see what the stresses and deflections are in the action body and bolt.  I was primarily thinking of doing this to see what the displacement of the bolt is relative to the back of the barrel (headspace). Maybe when I retire…


If you intend to do all that, consider making a Model of the No1 as well and compare the two...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 11:15am
I'm curious.
How many reports are there of No1 rifles suffering from"Receiver Spreading?
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 12:46pm
I’m a aircraft structures engineer and have a fair understanding of how loads result in material strains/stresses and I have a hard time visualizing this.  The loads on the locking lugs must be normal to those surfaces on the receiver, which are perpendicular to the bore.  There is no direct spreading load.  I can’t see how that spreads out the action by any significant amount, and certainly not permanent.

Now, there are three dimensional deflections/strains to a uniaxial load, called “poisson’s effect” which is perpendicular to the applied load.  And since the locking lugs are forward of the rear of the action where backsight lugs are located and the load is compressive behind the locking lugs, the poisson’s effect would cause a increase in sectional dimensions at the backsight lugs.  Most common construction materials have a poisson’s ratio around .2 to .3, meaning the transverse elongation is approx .3 times the axial elongation (for steel).  But, I suspect the elongation in the action body from compression forces of firing a cartridge is pretty darn small…it is made of steel after all, not rubber.  Maybe it spreads by .002 to .003 inches (ish).  And what effect does that have?  It is certainly an elastic deformation, meaning it returns to its original dimensions when the load is removed. 

Anyone still with me?

More that anyone wanted to know…I’m sure. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 1:08pm
I was, for a brief moment in time, a certified bridge welder and have a solid background in mechanical engineering so, like yourself have a fair understanding of how the dynamics of stress and strain on certain substances are applied. 
I can see the potential of metal fatigue and failure to the right side of the reciever where the long locking lug contacts if a constant and repeated load is applied in an almost non-stop circumstance. I cannot see it spreading outwards however...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 1:33pm
Metal fatigue is indeed a physical material property, which only occurs in tensile loading.  And there are lots of places on the action and bolt where tension stresses occur.  

The bolt is probably more susceptible to fatigue from tension stresses at the very tight (nearly zero) transition radius where the short lug meets the bolt body due to bending of that lug.  That very tight radius causes a high localized stress concentration. That’s one of the areas I wants to model with a very fine mesh to capture the peak stress.  

Fatigue life is an exponential function of the localized stress level.  Double the stress and the life (number of load cycles to initiate a fatigue crack) goes down by several orders of magnitude.  This is one reason I don’t like pushing loads up to near max with this action, occasionally, with a limited number of rounds that’s fine, but not for long term use. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 1:58pm
I'm surprised that that section of metal on BOTR's rifle didn't shear off with that little stunt of his.

All of my handloads are at the minimum to middle charge weights and according to all my reloading data, are well under the standardized 45,000 CUP rating. My Faux Supreme No4 had the reciever Magnafluxed and no microscopic hairline cracks or fractures in the metal were detected prior to assembly.
What Laidler describes to the best of his abilities would/could happen with or without the charging bridge and back sight assembly...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 2:42pm
I thought that lug did fracture after he shot 20 or 30 rounds of .300 Win Mag? Will have to watch that video again.  That was not a “manufacturing defect” in the bolt, that was classic metal fatigue; very rapid crack initiation and fatigue crack growth.  That stress level is way up on the top right of the Stress-Life curve.  

Yeah, stay away from near max loads.  Fine if your shoot a few rounds a year, but devastating if you shoot 1500+ rounds a year like I do.  That’s why I got a few No. 4 rifles, try and spread out the accumulation of fatigue damage and barrel erosion. 

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