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Lothar Walther barrels? |
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DRG1953 
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Joined: July 06 2022 Location: Ontario ,Canada Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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 Posted: July 06 2022 at 12:06pm |
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That's what they told me as well which is why I started looking into the Lothar-Walther
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
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Posted: July 06 2022 at 5:28pm |
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FWIW, the SAAMI drawing for the .303 British shows the bullet diameter as .3125 - .003, so bullets from .3095 to .3125 are within specification.
I’m inclined to think that the article from Criterion was referring to the Hornady .3105 FMJ bullet, as the .312 is a hollow point boat tail and would not be referred to as a “FMJ”. And that shooter won the 600 yard match…so likely shoots quite well. Reynolds book does indicate that .312 bullets shot better than .310 bullets, particularly in barrels with bore and groove diameters at the upper limit. 2 MOA from a No. 4 with original barrel should be considered quite good. If 10 shot groups exceed 3 MOA with handloads, then I would be looking for a new barrel. Going to be tough to find a NOS No. 4 barrel, 2 or 5 groove. I know there was at least one member who installed a Criterion barrel, can’t remember who it was. Have you slugged the bore on your No. 4? Would be useful to know the bore and groove diameters. |
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DRG1953
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Posted: July 06 2022 at 6:03pm |
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.......and that is who I am hoping to have a conversation with
No I have not. I worked well and then it didn't and slugging it at this stage is just curiosity. I KNOW .311's won't shoot well in it any longer and .312's will but the decline in accuracy didn't happen over night but over 4-6 weeks so it became apparent progressively over 150-200 rounds as I was shooting it at least 30-40 rounds a week for the past two years so it was noticeable because nothing else had change....same bullet, same load, no crown damage.... it just stopped shooting well but as soon as I put the .312's through it I was back to what I was used to seeing........ the problem is there are no .312's available to run further tests and I have over 1200. 311's sitting on the shelf so before I re-barrel I want to hear from someone who has with either the Criterion or the Lothar Walther because I want to know that .311's shoot well with them or did they have to use. 312's |
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Shamu
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Posted: July 06 2022 at 7:29pm |
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"Hornady makes a .3105 FMJ" I believe its designed for the 7.62X54R. But they work very well for me in the 303, when I can find them. Don't seat to have the crimp groove sit for crimping though (I don't crimp anyway) to get the right feed length it needs to be about 1/8" in front of a correctly trimmed case.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
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Posted: July 07 2022 at 6:43am |
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Sure wish we could help on this. You might try and call Criterion support staff and see if they have any customer feedback on the use of .311 bullets. If it works in a Criterion barrel, it will likely work in a Lothar Walther barrel too. Your 2 groove barrel may be shot out, we have seen reports that accuracy can fall off quickly once the throat erodes to a certain point, the bullet not entering the rifling in line with the bore. The bullet shape and diameter of the Hornady might give you a bit longer life out of the barrel. The 5 groove BSA barrel on my Long Branch has upwards of 10,000 rounds thru it and will still hold 1.5 to 2 MOA ten shot groups in prone with sling with the .311 SMK. But a 2 groove may be different, and it may have had a lot of Cordite shot thru it, I’ve only shot perhaps 30 rounds of Cordite ammunition thru mine. I’m expecting the Criterion and Lothar Walther barrels will shoot great with a .311 SMK, I sure hope so because I’ve got about 12,000 of these bullets! |
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britrifles
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Posted: July 07 2022 at 7:28am |
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One other possibility. I recall Brian d**k telling me a few years back that he was involved with the Criterion barrel development and they had sent him a test barrel. I just sent him an email asking if he installed it and test fired it, and if so, if he remembers what bullet he used. It’s not a Lothar Walther barrel, but both have the same bore and groove diameters.
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britrifles
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Posted: July 07 2022 at 10:28am |
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I heard back from Brian. He did test fire a Criterion barrel using a 174 SMK handload. He was quite happy with the accuracy. He thinks a .311 bullet will shoot just fine out of a Criterion or Lothar Walther barrel.
He charges $150 for a barrel replacement, but will only install barrels that are fully chambered (not barrels that are short chambered). |
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Goosic
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Posted: July 07 2022 at 10:37am |
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Bruno's Shooters Supply has at least 800 rounds of the Hornady GR BTHP .312" projectiles sitting on a shelf that I am/was factually aware of. Unless someone has purchased them as of this posting however. I traded them for the 200grn Lapua .3105" FMJBT...
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DRG1953
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Posted: July 07 2022 at 12:09pm |
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They don't show them in stock now so somebody has scooped them up. Doesn't matter though as there is the issue of shipping components to Canada that's the big impediment I have one more test to try but I think I will be getting the L-W barrel as waiting until an indeterminate time when/if Criterion making more is worthwhile is hit or miss. The Smith I've bee working with up here said he was told last winter it would be this summer..... now it's " later this year" we could be hearing that next year too. Thanks for mentioning it though
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DRG1953
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Posted: July 07 2022 at 12:43pm |
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......and that is pretty much exactly what has happened..... it worked..... then I started getting unexplainable flyers ( 4 - 6 inch flyers ) then the next 10 rounds might be good then a weird flyer then half the shots were flyers This was a good day not that long ago  Then starting late April the groups started getting worse with no change in load That target above was shot with 174 SMK's So was this about a month ago  note there are only 9 holes...... one went somewhere else IDK where and this was with .312 Hornadys five minutes later  So yes, I'm thinking it's shot out for .311s FWIW I had those .312 still around because I stopped using them in 2010 because the cases were showing flattened primers with virtually the same load as that last target which showed NO signs on the primers whereas 174 SMK's at the time did not and I kept them around specifically if something like this started to happen and that proved to be a good decision........I just wish I had kept more of them. I have no idea how many rounds may have been put through my Enfield before I got it but it was not beat up in the least. That said I think I probably put 4000 rds through it mostly in the last 2.5 years
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britrifles
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Posted: July 07 2022 at 2:14pm |
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Wow, that’s pretty dramatic and I suspect you have diagnosed correctly. I’m confident the LW barrel will shoot the .311 SMKs very well, under 2 MOA.
What is your current load? Are your shooting with service sights or a scope? |
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DRG1953
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Posted: July 07 2022 at 3:59pm |
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Scope. I had been using a Parker-Hale but my eyes just aren't good enough any longer as it came down to trying to get that fuzzy thing at the end of the barrel matched up with the fuzzy thing 100m away and it just wasn't working out the way I wanted any longer so I went to a scope with both the Enfield and the K98 Mauser and that made everything MUCH more worthwhile I am using a BadAce tactical no tap no drill scope mount and a Vortex 4-16X44 FFP scope. I am VERY happy with the BadAce mount and their customer service is second to none. It bolts in without having to alter ANYTHING https://www.badacetactical.ca/collections/feature-products/products/lee-enfield-no-drill-scope-mount I use 40 gn of either RL-15, IMR 4166 or Varget..... depending on what's available. Right now I only have some Varget left. My preferred powder is RL-15 but I have not seen that available locally to me in a couple of years. 40 gn of IMR 4895 also works and I have lots of that For the Mauser the same powders but 42gn- 44gn
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britrifles
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Posted: July 07 2022 at 5:15pm |
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Your loads are exactly the same as mine. 40 gr with a 174 gr bullet. Re 15 or Varget, both work exceptionally good in the .303. I’ve got 8 lbs of 4166 but not tried it yet. My Varget supply is dwindling, down to about 10 lbs now, so will have to go back to Re 15 or IMR 4166.
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DRG1953
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Posted: July 07 2022 at 6:39pm |
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IMR 4064 is another one I have used a lot. Also 40 gn for 303 and 42 for 8mm. Have Recently tried 47 gr of H4350 but that was after things started going wrong so not a good test but it's the same load as the one used for the prototype Criterion barrel in New Zealand
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jshaf00
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Joined: October 14 2018 Location: Kansas USA Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Posted: July 14 2022 at 9:23pm |
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Super curious about this subject would very much like to know if you all received your barrels and how they look, and if you got them installed and reamed. let us know what equipment you all used to accomplish the job how it head spaced and how it shoots. post some pics !!!!
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Moosm14
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Posted: October 16 2022 at 2:02pm |
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After rescuing an abused K98 Mauser that needed rebarreling, along with extensive restoration, I sourced a Lothar Walther barrel chambered in 7.62x51 and put together a faux low turret sniper.
Subsequently I reached out to both Lothar Walther and Criterion inquiring if a limited run of No.4 barrels in 7.62x51 might be possible without success
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There is room for all of gods creatures ... right next to the mashed potatoes
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scottz63 wrote: