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Military vs Homegrown |
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The Armourer
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Joined: June 23 2019 Location: Y Felinhelli Status: Offline Points: 1246 |
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Posted: November 26 2020 at 1:15pm |
The only information I have is on the cartons of British produced MkVII. Taken at the muzzle. ![]() ![]() |
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Shamu
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Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 20510 |
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Posted: November 26 2020 at 2:33pm |
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I believe it may have been times for the "100m" & back calculated from that. Chronographs back then were infinitely more of a PITA to set up or use as they relied on printed paper "screens" with conducting ink/paint. They were good for one shot Then you'd set them up with new ones & start all over. Timing TOF & calculating was much easier.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Honkytonk
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Joined: December 30 2017 Location: Brandon Mb Status: Offline Points: 5190 |
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Posted: November 26 2020 at 2:46pm |
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Did I mention that was really good shooting?
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Goosic
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Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8842 |
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Posted: November 26 2020 at 3:57pm |
Thank you HT. I definitely appreciate it. It was 46° with a 11mph crosswind across the range, I was not dressed for the occasion so I was a tad cold and I had absolutely no time for any sighting in stuff. It was a cold bore shot the second the range was cleared for live fire and from there on out, it was a race against the clock to get everything accomplished. I am going out next Wednesday without the chronograph. I will be using my M700P this time just to see if I can tighten the groups up.
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Enfield Envoy
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Joined: December 19 2020 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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Posted: January 27 2026 at 8:08am |
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Enfield Envoy
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Enfield Envoy
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Joined: December 19 2020 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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Posted: January 27 2026 at 8:14am |
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The pic says more than 1000 words...
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Enfield Envoy
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Enfield Envoy
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Joined: December 19 2020 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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Posted: January 29 2026 at 5:00am |
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.308 Win. Norma Military Production 168 gr HPBT Match ![]() |
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Enfield Envoy
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Shamu
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Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 20510 |
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Posted: January 29 2026 at 11:09am |
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NIce.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
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Posted: February 01 2026 at 4:54am |
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Factory ammunition quality for “match grade” products have made large improvements over the years. So much so that handloads don’t have the large accuracy advantage they once did. However, there is always the possibility that a tuned handload will produce tighter groups than factory, but we are talking small differences that may only show up in perhaps F-Class and bench rest shooting.
The other good reason to hand load is you have full control of the variables, like chamber pressure. I decided I would not shoot .308 Win factory loads thru my DCRA, not knowing how close they are to .308 Win max pressures with the chamber/throat on my No. 4 7.62 conversions. They are all probably fine, but no good reason to take the chance when you can handload. The claim that Norma is making that the diamond line (moly coated) bullets substantially increases barrel life is interesting. Barrel life is governed by throat erosion and that has a lot to do with powder burn temps and pressures. While the claim might be true in the sense that a one for one substitute of a plain jacketed bullet with a moly coated bullet keeping the same powder and charge weight would slightly lower pressures due to lower friction, bullets loaded to the same velocities seems unlikely there would be much difference in barrel life. NOS Enfield hammer forged heavy barrels for the L39/L42/Envoy must be very hard to find. But if the barrel life is truly doubled by substituting a plain jacketed bullet for a moly coated bullet, I would probably do that. Alternatively, you can shoot reduced pressure loads for short to mid range work, save the “full” pressure loads for long range. Factory ammunition is usually loaded to magazine length. You can substantially reduce pressures by seating bullets further out if the throat length allows it, which is the case for my DCRA 7.62 conversion. For 800, 900 and 1000 yards, I’m loading the Sierra 168 grain Tipped MatchKing (TMK) seated to a OAL of 2.95 inches, .020 inches off the lands. Cramming that long bullet in the case to a 2.81 OAL reduces case volume significantly with a corresponding pressure increase. I’m not seeing any load data specific for the TMKs, yet we know that when seated to the same length as the SMK, they must result in higher pressures for the same charge weight. |
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Shamu
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Posted: February 01 2026 at 12:45pm |
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^^^ THIS regarding seating depth. I seat with one full caliber in the case neck (ignoring the boat tail.)you won't get a to the lands in even a brand new .303 barrel so I split the difference between bullet run-out & jump to lands.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
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Posted: February 01 2026 at 1:07pm |
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Absolutely, a good rule of thumb Shamu. Especially with tangent shaped ogives. I experimented with the secant ogive 168 TMK and accuracy improved significantly by seating closer to the lands. I did not want to risk getting so close that it could be jammed into the lands, so settled on 0.020” off the lands. That Hornady OAL gage is a very useful tool.
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Shamu
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Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 20510 |
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Posted: February 01 2026 at 3:33pm |
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I'm actually seating pretty much to the longest COAL that will feed from my magazines.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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A square 10
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Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 16997 |
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Posted: February 01 2026 at 9:50pm |
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what happened to your avitar shamu - its distracting
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Sapper740
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Joined: July 15 2021 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 1737 |
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Posted: February 02 2026 at 2:56am |
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I always choose the longer COAL of either the maximum COAL allowed by the magazine or the COAL allowed by being .025" off the lands. For some rifles, however I'll choose to single load if I get unsatisfactory accuracy with a COAL based on the magazine length. I have a civilian M.L.E. target rifle that has massive freebore, so much that any bullet I load would be 1/2" outside of the case if I attempted to load it .025" off the lands which makes me wonder if the rifle was originally chambered for one of the pre-MkVII rounds.
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
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Posted: February 02 2026 at 4:26am |
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Not too likely bullets for a No. 4 (or No. 1 for that matter) can be seated to within .025 of the lands and still be magazine length. Not with any of the bullets I tried anyway, but perhaps with a heavy round nose bullet? The closest I got to that was with the Lothar Walther barrel I fitted last year. I did not do any reaming of the chamber and set headspace to minimum. IIRC, OAL with a 174 SMK is about 3.11 at touch.
The nice BSA barrel I shot out on that rifle had a very long throat, jump to the lands was over 0.5 inches. I hadn’t shot any appreciable amount of cordite loads, but about 10,000 founds of NC powder. Your MLE could have that much throat erosion from the years shot with cordite. A borescope pic would tell the tale. I have wondered if the rifling lead dimensions were changed after the Mk VII cartridge was introduced in new production barrels, but haven’t found anything to indicate this. I suspect that the thinking was the rifle should be able to chamber and fire all previous marks of ammunition. |
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Shamu
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Posted: February 02 2026 at 10:52am |
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I tried that with some 215 Gr RN bullets I was gifted. It wasn't even close, If I wanted my self-imposed minimum seating depth of one full caliber! |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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