The Lee-Enfield &quot;Mad Minute&quot;

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Posted: August 03 2019 at 3:54pm

His name was "Will"!

"31 rounds,

rapid fire,

in your own time,

FIRE AT WILL"

(Actually I have no idea, sorry)

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)

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Posted: August 04 2019 at 1:10am

Maybe he had lost his horse ?

Or someone decided to 'colour in' the original which is believed to have represented the shape of the foresight blade.

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Posted: August 04 2019 at 4:14am

Excellent thread, enjoyed it much.
When I was in we shot qualifying similar to the outlined.
From 600 up to 50-75 yrds auto standing, or as it was called the run down.
Though the doctrin has greatly changed, it is more about supression fire to enable forward movement.
Easy done with automatic weapons.
Also included the browning high power from 50yrds.
I hated the run down!
Now when I did this it was in the early '90s, this has certainly changed since then, its now more about FIBUA, fighting in built up areas as infantry men.

shoot em if you got em

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Posted: August 04 2019 at 5:05am

Pukka Bundook wrote:

Shamu,

What you describe regarding how to hold the rifle, (loose right hand) is Exactly what was taught in the manuals in Major Barlow's day.

What He presents, is Not the official way of doing things, and in the book he presents a very good case for why we should alter our technique.

(backed up by him being successful with it as well!)

He did follow the "party line" regarding bolt /trigger manipulation, but had differing ideas on how to improve our scores in other areas, sight picture and such.

If you get a chance, pick up the book and have a read. it Does help no-end!

Best,

Richard.

These old books are all we have that describe shooting techniques of the masters. My copy is the 5th ed, by Brigadier Barlow. His Prone position is quite different from what I was taught. I did not seriously take up competitive shooting until I had moved to the States, and was taught the “USMC way”, with the left elbow under the rifle.

Note that Barlow describes the right hand grip as “hard””. He also states “The left hand should not, as many people think, pull the rifle into the shoulder. That is the job of the right hand.”

His method for rapid shooting still retains the firm grip on the butt wrist, using the thumb and first finger to operate the bolt in one smooth motion with “a flick of the wrist”.

This standard of rapid fire (10 rounds in 40 seconds) is twice as fast as the rapid stage in the CMP Games Events in the US (M1, 03 Springfield and Vintage Military bolt rifles). Though, CMP Rapid Fire clock starts with the rifleman standing, bolt closed on empty chamber, so you must first get in the prone position.

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Posted: August 04 2019 at 6:33am

Thanks for attaching these pages from Major Barlow's book, Simon.

Re grip;

It only goes to show there is more than one way to win a horse -race.

Major Barlow's recommendations re. prone position are very solid advise I'd say, as they keep one much lower to the ground and the triangle formed with arms and chest are Very stable. No wavering about in this position.

Again though, it all comes down to what we are used to!

To paraphrase the good old Peter Hawker;

Can you shoot well in your present prone position? ..."Yes!" "Well don't change it!"

Can you shoot well in your present position? ...."No!" "well by all means try Major Barlow's method!"

While you're at it Simon, Could you show his diagrams etc. for the prone triangle? and how it differs from the "arm under the rifle" method?

Thanks again,

Richard.

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Posted: August 04 2019 at 7:06am

I have this from "Shoot to live":

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)

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Posted: August 04 2019 at 7:18am

He sure has a good grip on the forward part of the stock! What rank do you think that lad is? I always wondered why our military chevron's, like Britians, are pointed down unlike the US that are pointed up. I think the US Navy points the same as ours.

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Posted: August 04 2019 at 7:32am

Some of you “old timers” may remember better than me, but the rank is a Warrant Officer, looks like what is now called a Master Warrant Officer.

Richard, I completely agree with you, there are numerous ways to hold the rifle to get excellent results. I don’t believe there is one “right” way. There are common factors in all methods.

The advantage I have found with placing the left elbow under the rifle is that breathing limits muzzle movement to the vertical direction only. I use breathing to fine tune the position of the foresight on the aiming mark, exhale until the foresight is aligned, pause and take the shot.

I’m glad you mentioned this book, I’ve not looked at it in years, and rereading it now picking up on many things he recommends that I have learned the hard way.

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Posted: August 04 2019 at 8:42am

Honkytonk wrote:

He sure has a good grip on the forward part of the stock! What rank do you think that lad is? I always wondered why our military chevron's, like Britians, are pointed down unlike the US that are pointed up. I think the US Navy points the same as ours.

I could be wrong here.(Once I thot I was wrong - but I was mistaken)
He looks to be a SWO (judging by the badge on his sleeve

Loose wimmen tightened here

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Posted: August 04 2019 at 8:48am

Agreed, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

If you use the "right hand free" method you also have to use the other elbow under the rifle though or you're using a bipod with one leg folded!

If I'm doing anything other than "Rapid Fire" I use the tripod firing position shown above.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)

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Posted: August 04 2019 at 11:27am

It looks like a 'Tate & Lyles" (Warrant Officer's) insignia above a set of good conduct (not rank) chevrons.

Similar to the U.S. "Hershey bar" insignia.

https://www.nam.ac.uk/sites/default/files/2017-05/225065_half.jpg

The Good-Conduct stripe was a British Army award for good conduct during service in the Regular Army by an enlisted man. The insignia was a points-up chevron of NCO's lace worn on the lower sleeve of the uniform jacket. It was given to Privates and Lance Corporals for 2, 6, 12, or 18 years' service without being subject to formal discipline

British rank insignia is bigger & worn higher over the bicep, & is pointed down like US rank. We don't have the curved top section like us forces do for tech ranks I think?

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)

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Posted: August 04 2019 at 1:28pm

hi i have that book there is some good reading in it

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Posted: August 14 2020 at 2:29am

Thanks for the compilation of this information.

I thought the British Soldiers got a higher pay rate if they passed the " mad minute" range test. Do you know if this was true?

Semper Fi

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https://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/43102565094/the-mad-minute-marksmanship-training-in-the

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Posted: August 14 2020 at 6:34am

That was only part of it. There were other drills as well.

Fully training an expert rifleman could take a couple of years.

"The classification shoot was shot in several stages shot out to 600 yards, the various stages or serials were laid out in Table B, Appendix II in the Musketry Regulations Pt.1, these included grouping with 5 rounds at 100 yards, snap shooting with 5 rounds out at 200 yards, two 5 round stages fired slowly with the first at 400 yards from the prone position and another at 300 yards from kneeling. Then came the so called ‘Mad Minute’ stage fired from prone at a target 300 yards out. This was to be fired with 5 rounds loaded - 1 in the chamber and 4 in the magazine, the rifleman would then reload with 5-round chargers firing until 60 seconds had elapsed. The target used for this stage was the Second Class figure target which was a 4 foot screen with a 12 inch high figure silhouette at the centre surrounded by two rings, a 23 inch inner ring and a 36 inch outer ring. This stage was then followed by three final stages fired from prone out to 500 and 600 yards."

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)

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Posted: October 02 2020 at 7:09pm

I was rewatching Peter Jackson's movie "They shall not grow old" and they talked about the Mad Minute. One scene had about a half dozen soldiers prone shooting... one was a southpaw!

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