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The Lee-Enfield "Mad Minute" |
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Shamu ![]() Admin Group ![]() ![]() Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 16796 |
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His name was "Will"! ![]() "31 rounds, rapid fire, in your own time, FIRE AT WILL" ![]() (Actually I have no idea, sorry)
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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The Armourer ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: June 23 2019 Location: Y Felinhelli Status: Offline Points: 1246 |
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shiloh ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 08 2019 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 1992 |
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Excellent thread, enjoyed it much.
When I was in we shot qualifying similar to the outlined. From 600 up to 50-75 yrds auto standing, or as it was called the run down. Though the doctrin has greatly changed, it is more about supression fire to enable forward movement. Easy done with automatic weapons. Also included the browning high power from 50yrds. I hated the run down! Now when I did this it was in the early '90s, this has certainly changed since then, its now more about FIBUA, fighting in built up areas as infantry men. |
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shoot em if you got em
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britrifles ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 5741 |
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These old books are all we have that describe shooting techniques of the masters. My copy is the 5th ed, by Brigadier Barlow. His Prone position is quite different from what I was taught. I did not seriously take up competitive shooting until I had moved to the States, and was taught the “USMC way”, with the left elbow under the rifle. ![]() Note that Barlow describes the right hand grip as “hard””. He also states “The left hand should not, as many people think, pull the rifle into the shoulder. That is the job of the right hand.” His method for rapid shooting still retains the firm grip on the butt wrist, using the thumb and first finger to operate the bolt in one smooth motion with “a flick of the wrist”. ![]() This standard of rapid fire (10 rounds in 40 seconds) is twice as fast as the rapid stage in the CMP Games Events in the US (M1, 03 Springfield and Vintage Military bolt rifles). Though, CMP Rapid Fire clock starts with the rifleman standing, bolt closed on empty chamber, so you must first get in the prone position. |
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Pukka Bundook ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 02 2015 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1369 |
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Thanks for attaching these pages from Major Barlow's book, Simon.
Re grip; It only goes to show there is more than one way to win a horse -race. Major Barlow's recommendations re. prone position are very solid advise I'd say, as they keep one much lower to the ground and the triangle formed with arms and chest are Very stable. No wavering about in this position. Again though, it all comes down to what we are used to! To paraphrase the good old Peter Hawker; Can you shoot well in your present prone position? ..."Yes!" "Well don't change it!" Can you shoot well in your present position? ...."No!" "well by all means try Major Barlow's method!" While you're at it Simon, Could you show his diagrams etc. for the prone triangle? and how it differs from the "arm under the rifle" method? Thanks again, Richard.
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Shamu ![]() Admin Group ![]() ![]() Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 16796 |
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I have this from "Shoot to live": ![]() |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Honkytonk ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 30 2017 Location: Brandon Mb Status: Offline Points: 4681 |
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He sure has a good grip on the forward part of the stock! What rank do you think that lad is? I always wondered why our military chevron's, like Britians, are pointed down unlike the US that are pointed up. I think the US Navy points the same as ours.
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britrifles ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 5741 |
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Some of you “old timers” may remember better than me, but the rank is a Warrant Officer, looks like what is now called a Master Warrant Officer.
Richard, I completely agree with you, there are numerous ways to hold the rifle to get excellent results. I don’t believe there is one “right” way. There are common factors in all methods. The advantage I have found with placing the left elbow under the rifle is that breathing limits muzzle movement to the vertical direction only. I use breathing to fine tune the position of the foresight on the aiming mark, exhale until the foresight is aligned, pause and take the shot. I’m glad you mentioned this book, I’ve not looked at it in years, and rereading it now picking up on many things he recommends that I have learned the hard way.
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hoadie ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: March 16 2006 Location: Niagara/Canada Status: Offline Points: 8781 |
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I could be wrong here.(Once I thot I was wrong - but I was mistaken) He looks to be a SWO (judging by the badge on his sleeve |
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Loose wimmen tightened here
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Shamu ![]() Admin Group ![]() ![]() Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 16796 |
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Agreed, there's more than one way to skin a cat. If you use the "right hand free" method you also have to use the other elbow under the rifle though or you're using a bipod with one leg folded! If I'm doing anything other than "Rapid Fire" I use the tripod firing position shown above.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Shamu ![]() Admin Group ![]() ![]() Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 16796 |
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It looks like a 'Tate & Lyles" (Warrant Officer's) insignia above a set of good conduct (not rank) chevrons. Similar to the U.S. "Hershey bar" insignia. ![]() The Good-Conduct stripe was a British Army award for good conduct
during service in the Regular Army by an enlisted man. The insignia was
a points-up chevron of NCO's lace worn on the lower sleeve of the
uniform jacket. It was given to Privates and Lance Corporals for 2, 6,
12, or 18 years' service without being subject to formal discipline British rank insignia is bigger & worn higher over the bicep, & is pointed down like US rank. We don't have the curved top section like us forces do for tech ranks I think?
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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pisco ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 21 2018 Location: australia Status: Offline Points: 206 |
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hi i have that book there is some good reading in it
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RayR ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: September 21 2012 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Thanks for the compilation of this information.
I thought the British Soldiers got a higher pay rate if they passed the " mad minute" range test. Do you know if this was true? |
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Semper Fi
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Shamu ![]() Admin Group ![]() ![]() Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 16796 |
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That was only part of it. There were other drills as well. Fully training an expert rifleman could take a couple of years. ![]() "The classification shoot was shot in
several stages shot out to 600 yards, the various stages or serials
were laid out in Table B, Appendix II in the Musketry Regulations
Pt.1, these included grouping with 5 rounds at 100 yards, snap
shooting with 5 rounds out at 200 yards, two 5 round stages fired
slowly with the first at 400 yards from the prone position and
another at 300 yards from kneeling. Then came the so called
‘Mad Minute’ stage fired from prone at a target 300 yards out.
This was to be fired with 5 rounds loaded - 1 in the chamber and 4 in
the magazine, the rifleman would then reload with 5-round chargers
firing until 60 seconds had elapsed. The target used for this
stage was the Second Class figure target which was a 4 foot
screen with a 12 inch high figure silhouette at the centre surrounded
by two rings, a 23 inch inner ring and a 36 inch outer ring.
This stage was then followed by three final stages fired from prone
out to 500 and 600 yards."
https://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/43102565094/the-mad-minute-marksmanship-training-in-the
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Honkytonk ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 30 2017 Location: Brandon Mb Status: Offline Points: 4681 |
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I was rewatching Peter Jackson's movie "They shall not grow old" and they talked about the Mad Minute. One scene had about a half dozen soldiers prone shooting... one was a southpaw!
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Goosic ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8316 |
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I watched Crocodile Dundee 2 last night. Mick had the No4Mk1 with the thumbhole stock and if you look closely, Sue is holding a P14.
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